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I was totally wiped out by an army heavy on 6 man lasplas squads, 3 predator destructors, 3 tornadoes, and 2 terminator command squads with librarians with fury, and 2 Ven Dreads. He pretty much formed up in a castle/refused flank formation....My army were blood angels and in 2 turns he wiped out my las/plas squads.

Terrain was sparse, so...whats the best way to crack a nut like that?

#1 - Have decent terrain. 25% coverage is the minimum acceptable amount; less is way skewed towards shooty armies.

#2 - What were you running? As BA, you should be able to out-assault him. Trying to beat him at the shooting game won't work, since it's counter to your specialty and right up his alley.

I haven't faced that exact army with my Blood Angels, but it could be tough.

A lot of it depends on how you build your BA list. With mine, I make an effort to load up on Death Company, and they never let me down. They'll shrug off Plasma pretty well, and they're fast, but you can't be too greedy with them. If you get there in turn 3 or 4, fine. Better to get there than to get shot off the table in turn 2. Use cover, move carefully, take the safest route, not the fastest. I do the same thing with my Assault Squad, but they're not nearly as hard or as dangerous as the DC, so they're less of a threat.

The DC will absolutely maul a Terminator squad. If you play right, you'll always get the charge with DC, and if they're of any good size, and have a Chaplain and a Fist or two, they'll wipe out a 5 Terminator squad in the same round they charge. Make sure to put your Fists in BtB with his Librarian if you can manage it. I usually get at least 10 models and a Chaplain, and at least a Fist or two in mine, and that unit will absolutely maul almost anything it hits.

I use some Las/Plas squads in my list as well. He should be deploying his Destructors before your Las/Plas, so try to find a relatively safe spot that gives you a look at a tank, but sees little else. If he hides the tanks, great, your Las/Plas are already intimidating him. Again, the key is to not get greedy with them. If they're set up to see the whole field, the whole field sees them. Let them have a small section to worry about.

I run Scouts. If you have some, and can Infiltrate them, try to find a spot where they can get into some Las/Plas squads. A lucky rage roll, and you get there turn 1. Even if you don't, it's surprising how often people will fail to counter-assault, and let the Scouts charge them. Even if they do charge you, your Scouts will do fine against Bolter equipped Marines, and you're likely to come out ahead.

If they've got a lot of Las/Plas, it's best to start any vehicles you have in cover, but watch out for the Speeders coming from the back or sides.

All in all, the shooty Marine list is tough to play against, but BAs are a very, very powerful list, and if you build a good army, load up on DC, and play them well, there's nothing out there you shouldn't be able to beat. There's not many lists more overpowered than BAs.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 11/13/2006 11:01 PM
#1 - Have decent terrain. 25% coverage is the minimum acceptable amount; less is way skewed towards shooty armies.

#2 - What were you running? As BA, you should be able to out-assault him. Trying to beat him at the shooting game won't work, since it's counter to your specialty and right up his alley.

terrain was about 25% but there were plenty fields of fire. Level 2 hills don't block level 3 tanks. Maybe I overreacted to his tanks shooting me and I took into account his las plas would shoot me despite the terrain. My bad.

 

How does DC shrug off plasma? I thought DC only got Feel No Pain against wounds that could be saved against.

They have to ignore armor saves in close combat or cause instant death to not gran a FNP save.

You don't get Feel No Pain against Close Combat attacks that Ignore Armor Saves or any attack that would cause instant death.

So you would get your FNP save against Plasma as it's not a CC attack and it isn't enough to instant kill your DC Marine. The Casualty from a lascannon shot however, would be lost.

Pods

With Blood Angels I would get a HUGE death company and proceed to beat the snot out of the las/plas squads. Infiltrating scouts are good too. With BP+CCW they'll hang with 'nilla marines any day. Move through cover and 'rage will help you get the charge!!!. Make sure 25% of the board has cover, try to get some level three area terrain.  Forests are preferable, they are level 3 area terrain so they block line of site and let you infiltrate 12" away, yet they are not impassible so your scouts move through them smoothly.  Another big advantage with BA's is your characters, your Jump Pack librarians should go at I 7 on the charge at str 5 with a force weapon.

With other marines, drop pods will do the trick since you get to "double tap" first.

With my Templars, I would run ~40 marines in drop pods.

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 11/14/2006 4:31 AM
You don't get Feel No Pain against Close Combat attacks that Ignore Armor Saves or any attack that would cause instant death.

So you would get your FNP save against Plasma as it's not a CC attack and it isn't enough to instant kill your DC Marine. The Casualty from a lascannon shot however, would be lost.

Curses....if I had known that the DC would have been right in the castles face to tie up units.

Posted By mauleed on 11/14/2006 6:07 AM
Pods

Had them. They deviated too far to block LOS, and his Tornadoesand Ven Dreads chewed up the squads that came out.

I think he means an all pod army. I have notice with pod armies you need to commit everything to pods and terms to have success everytime.

No lone Death Companies.  Use Assault Marines for close combat support, and bikes for additional shooting / close combat support, and infiltrating BA Scouts for the second assault wave.  Take power weapons in preference to power fists, because power weapons combo much better with Furious Charge than power fists.

If you can get a bike into CC, you can create a LOS blocking line.  It's real tricky moving bikes up into firepower, so get some tanks to hide behind.  Rhinos and Razorbacks do nicely as mobile hills.

Absolutely. I think taking a Jump Pack Chaplain in a Blood Angels list is the biggest no-brainer in all of 40K, but some people still need to be reminded.



No way. Power Fists are the weapon of choice. Yes, Furious Charge does improve the Power Weapon much more than the Power Fist, but the Fist is so dramatically superior it really doesn't matter. You will kill more enemies with a Fist, you can instant kill ICs with the fist, you can take on vehicles and high T enemies with the Fist, and it's hidden, so it'll be the last to go regardless.



In my experience, they're the first wave. They tie up shooters, or chase them out of cover. They tend to get wiped out, but they keep shooters from shooting, and they give up models to the DC. That's all I expect of them.

Honestly, for every Scout that goes to the Death Company, two more can die without doing anything of use, and I still consider that a net win. I think a basic DC model is worth 35-40 points easy. Think about it... A basic Jump Pack Marine is 22 points. The DC models have +1A, Feel no Pain, Furious Charge and they're Fearless. That's a 35+ points easy. Death Company is fully broken.

Ughh, a BA scout sarge killed an entire squad of plague marines and nurglings in about 2 turns.