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ok for the next year we will be completely overrun with the nearly unkillable eldar skimmers. What are some of the best ways to take them down?

With chaos

the best i can come up with is tank hunting havocs with 4 autocannons.

 

 

Tankhunting terminators with twin linked autocannons?

For chaos, I am at a loss.

actually for alot of armies I am at a loss. Cocentrated fire is the best thing I can think of. Kind of like taking out necron squads. You dont divide fire between numerous warrior squads, you concentrate fire on a single unit, wiping them out and moving on.

Chaos and space marines seem to have it easy with tank hunters and multiple shot weapons.

Sister of battle can always rely on the exorcist and allied imperial guard.

Imperial gaurd can just take TONS of autocannons.

Necron, well almost anything with them will at least glance.

Dark Eldar may have some trouble.

Orks are almost screwed.

Tyranids can rely on dakafex's

other eldar armies can hit skimmers with a farseer power to spin them around, then hit rear armor with scatterlasers.

Dakkafexes and gunfexes pwn eldar skimmers

The skimmers have almost no offensive power, and you eventually whittle them down with the nids guns. It seriously takes a fire prism about 8 years to kill a carnifex Falcons aren't much better because they have to get reeeeal close to drop those fire dragons, and then they get pounded by multiple dakkafex shots, possibly in the rear.

Played a guy with just two falcons recently and they got in range of my dakkafexes and one of them ate 12 glancing hits in a round (gunfexe, tyrant, 3 dakkafexes). Little good luck rolling but still. On the downside all I did was shake it

Luckily it's easy enough to shake them both while killing the rest of their army for points, for Godzilla nids anyway.

Other less resilient armies with more of their tank killing concentrated in obliterators, terminators, and havocs, are going to have a much harder time of it unfortunately because the Eldar /can/ kill a couple squads of terminators in a turn

Your best bet is still to follow this strategy IMO. It's similar (in spirit) to the strategy Orks have to stick to when fighting Necrons with a Monolith.



1) In the movement phase, move any of your units that can be charged/shot next turn by the unit(s) inside the incoming Falcon(s) out of charge/shooting range if possible. Also move your units/vehicles to deny the Falcon(s) easy shooting kills if possible (such as rear-armor vehicle shots). In general, it is worth making these moves even if you are giving up potential heavy weapon shots from the moving units to do so.


2) If you cannot get all of your units out of the potential charge/shooting range of the Falcon(s) passengers, move one unit into position to be the "sacrificial lamb" to take the brunt of the Eldar charge/firing. If facing a possible charge, make sure to leave as much distance between your sacraficial unit and the rest of your units. Again, it is worth making these moves even if you will be giving up Heavy weapon fire on the Falcon(s) to do so.


3) In the shooting phase, start firing with units that only have LOS to Falcon(s) first.


4) As soon as you score a single glancing hit on a Falcon, stop firing at it. Repeat this step against each of the Falcons facing you. Start with units that can only see the Falcon(s) and then move on to other units in your army. Always stop shooting at a particular Falcon once it is Shaken.


5) Once all Falcons are shaken, STOP SHOOTING AT THEM and start firing on the rest of the Eldar army. Your goal is to minimize the damage they can cause to your army, but then IGNORE THEM AS BEST YOU CAN.

6) Finally, after all this If you have a unit that can't draw LOS to any other unit except a Shaken Falcon, then by all means go ahead and fire at it.

If all goes well you will only lose one sacrifical unit per transported load of Eldar before you wipe out the Eldar unit with return fire. Hopefully you can also manage to at least Shake each Falcon 3 of the 6 turns in the game (thereby reducing the amount of damage they do to you). Most importantly of all, hopefully you are able to wipe out the rest of the Eldar army.

And if you're playing a mission with objectives the Falcon(s) can capture. . .well, you're pretty much screwed unless you get really lucky.

Damn fine advice. Stuff like this is why I read dakka to actually get help with my game.

Personally, I generally won't be facing that many Eldar skimmers in friendly games, but for going to tournaments or playing tougher games at the FLGS/GW Store I'm going to rely on Terminators with Assault Cannons and Tank Hunters to at least keep the falcons glanced. I'm hoping that with less people taking Starcannons it makes my life a lot easier keeping the Termies alive.

Firedragons and Harlies will still make my terminators cry, but they're a lot harder to get to work right than sitting 36" away and unloading AP2 shots, so this isn't the worst idea ever.

At BS4 a lascannon, autocannon or rapid-firing plasma gun all have the same chances of shaking a falcon with one volley. It's not at all unusual for one lascannon shot to do the job.

Ork rokkits, because they are mobile and multi-shot, backed up by the reroll runts are also comparatively effective.

The exorcist is the ultimate falcon-killer. It's unusual for a falcon to survive a volley.

...and, if you're a marine player, I'm sad to say that you're going to have to stop minmaxing assault cannons and actually start using some other kinds of weapons again. Because of their crappy range, assault cannons are among the least effective anti-falcon guns around. Sorry to force you to do something different again.

I agree with Yak's assessment. Generally, the falcons can be dealt with by stopping them from shooting, it's the crap inside that you have to worry about more than anything else. Once the rest of the stuff has been dealt with, falcons are the next goal to take out.

If there are missions with objectives, I wouldn't say you are screwed as so much that you are at a disadvantage because you have to keep your own fast moving units or objective grabbing units alive. This will help against those pesky Falcons from swooping in and grabbing them. If you are threating contesting them all the better for you.

Capt K

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 11/16/2006 5:37 AM
At BS4 a lascannon, autocannon or rapid-firing plasma gun all have the same chances of shaking a falcon with one volley. It's not at all unusual for one lascannon shot to do the job.

Ork rokkits, because they are mobile and multi-shot, backed up by the reroll runts are also comparatively effective.

The exorcist is the ultimate falcon-killer. It's unusual for a falcon to survive a volley.

...and, if you're a marine player, I'm sad to say that you're going to have to stop minmaxing assault cannons and actually start using some other kinds of weapons again. Because of their crappy range, assault cannons are among the least effective anti-falcon guns around. Sorry to force you to do something different again.

Funny, a normal single assault cannon has the same chances as your BS4 Lascannon, Autocannon, or Rapid Firing plasmagun.

The fear of the Falcon is more what's riding inside them that's going to either hop out and melta you to death or come out and charge you the next turn.  If you're looking at it from a gun perspective, if they pay for the starcannon then they'll have 4 AP2 shots coming at you with BS3, IF it gets to fire.   The 4th ed Falcons are much more survivable than before, but they're less likely to shoot and their volleys of shots aren't as good as they used to be since it can't go above BS3 and the Starcannon only getting two shots.

Furthermore an Assault Cannon with tank hunters is twice as likely to glance as your BS4 Lascannon, Autocannon, or Rapid Firing Plasmagun.  In a terminator heavy list, especially in drop pods multiple squads of terminators with assault cannons covering each other should prove more than capable of keeping a Falcon shaken/stunned.

You dont need to concern yourself with killing them. They are mighty expensive, and a BS 3 dont kill an aweful lot onless guided. The trick is to keep them from shooting. Once you stopped one from shooting, move on to the next. At armor 12 it is pretty easy to shake them. With minimal firepower you have neutralized over 600 points of shooting, and if your lucky you might immobilze one, allowing it to be pened next turn.

Tau are best off with Ionheads and MPs en masse. The Tau list that came second at the UKGT Heat 1 was a good example of an anti-Eldar list that can also take on other armies with a fairly good chance of success.

Voodoo: note that I said "because of their crappy range" not because of their fire rate or strength. I'm familiar with the numbers when they are in range.

I was referring back to a discussion from about a month ago where some assault cannon devotees were arguing that there was no need to ever take any other marine weapon again. The situation that posters in that thread said was unlikely--assault cannons versus falcons--will now be more common than ever.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 11/16/2006 7:51 AM
Voodoo: note that I said "because of their crappy range" not because of their fire rate or strength. I'm familiar with the numbers when they are in range.

I was referring back to a discussion from about a month ago where some assault cannon devotees were arguing that there was no need to ever take any other marine weapon again. The situation that posters in that thread said was unlikely--assault cannons versus falcons--will now be more common than ever.

I guess that depends on how you get and deploy your Assault Cannon Platforms.

If you're deepstriking terminators in then the chance that as the falcons spread out through the game I can probably drop another terminator squad in that area of the board.  Assuming a 6' wide board I can have a squad cover 1/3 of the board; and assuming I'm going to try and take as many assault cannons as possible it's probably a good bet that I'm going to have 3-4 squads of termies and then either speeders or whatever else have you.  

Also remember that the real problem with Falcons now is what they're carrying, either Fire Dragons, Banshees, or Harlies - their Guns aren't that big a problem.  To deliver their payload and not just deny VP's they have to get close, which means being in AC range. 

Admittedly, I'm only thinking of how to deal with them in a drop pod list that's very assault cannon heavy - since that's the list I use when I'm not playing in my gaming group and that's the list I'm going to be using at tournaments which are the only times I'll likely be seeing a lot of Eldar Skimmers.

I got to agree with Flavius on this one. Assault cannons are not really all that good for dealing with falcons. The reason for this is exactly what he was talking about... range. Assault cannons get to shoot once at a falcon and that's it (unless of course the eldar player is dumb but I wouldn't count on that as a tactic). Anything mounted on a land speeder is going to be target priority number 1 for the eldar army so I wouldn't count on them living long. After that, terminators, baal predators and dreadnaughts all only move 6 inches a turn (if they want to shoot). This means that if they get into range via deep strike or something similar, they get one shot before the falcon moves away (12 inches while still being able to shoot) and stays out of range for the rest of the game. After the first shot, you simply will not be able to catch the falcon to fire at it again. Longer range weapons like lascannons, auto cannons, and missile launchers are much harder to avoid (usually requiring the falcon to be out of line of sight).

Back to topic, I would fear for my falcon's life against tank hunting auto cannon toating havocs. Tank hunting missile launcher devistator squads are also rather brutal.

tank hunting Noise marine havocs with blastmasters are nice as well. They can move and shoot, which is great.

Capt K

My 2 cents:

1. Some Lascannons.

2. First turn.

3. Not too much terrain.

A Falon that has not moved, dies rather fast.

Good point about the first turn. Taking a token DH Inquisitor with the Emperor's Tarot in every type of Imperial army that can take one would probably be a good idea.