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If you're in a no comp tournament (as all the 07 GW GTs will be), should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?

I'm of the opinion that whining about comp in a no comp tournament is inherently unsportsmanlike and deserving of a bad sports score, particularly if the person is using comp as an outlet for expressing what a sore loser they are.

Now normally my sports scoring is all or nothing. If you don't cheat and are polite, you get full points from me. If not, you get a zero and I tell you I gave you a zero (happened to do this at the last tournament I went to).

So should I be zeroing people that whine about my army during and after the game? (assuming it's a no comp tournament?) Should I bend on the all or nothing and just give them one tick from zero?

In a no comp tourney, yes you should dock them, but zeroing them because they vocally say "man nice game but jeez that is kinda a cheesey list?" once would be a wee bit harsh. If they persist with it, then by all means zero them. It is poor sportsmanship to keep pushing the issue, because the match was already decided, and nothing can be done about it

Yes, in this circumstance, depending on the whine level. If it was bad I'd definitely start knocking points. Having said that if he's whining about yourcheesy list he's probably already pushed into the sportsmanship negative player zone anyway.

I tend not to dogball anyone. It is rather annoying when someone whines about how your list is X and it should be Y to keep in line with their perception of fluff. So yes whining about someones army is bad sports IMO however doing a stealth dogball is worse.

Whining about anything = bad sportsmanship.

If you get your butt kicked you say good game and then its time for some inflection. You dont berate the guy that just bested you because you were obviously not as perpared as him.

I berate the_trooper because he has just primed zombies!!!

What ya gonna do about it!?!?!?

Like 5. Pffft.

Posted By moosifer on 12/12/2006 10:18 AM
In a no comp tourney, yes you should dock them, but zeroing them because they vocally say "man nice game but jeez that is kinda a cheesey list?" once would be a wee bit harsh. If they persist with it, then by all means zero them. It is poor sportsmanship to keep pushing the issue, because the match was already decided, and nothing can be done about it

I agree with this, no need to totally tank someone if they just give you their opinion.   Sounds like you are just being vindictive.

I'd probably tank you right back in sports if you totally zeroed me, however.

People whining about my army...Especially hypocritical whining about cheese definitely negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game. I've made a vow that if I hear any whining about my army from now on, I'm going to tank the sports score. Especially since, I'm sure people like that will tank comp and sports regardless.

And I feel confidant in doing this in comp tourneys also.

There's whining, then there's commenting. Someone saying that your list is cheesy could be his way of saying that your list is optimized. I know a kid who says Lysander Wing is cheesy but what he means is optimized. What I'm basically saying is that make sure its whining and not just someone commenting that they got their ass handed to them.

Example:
"Dude, your army is cheese. I never realized LatD could do that." It all depends on the tone of that statement. He could be saying it with a smile while he mentally resolves to buy daemons or he could be saying with a sneer while he plans on slamming your sports score. I know that when I play we often find a "cheesy" list and alot of the enjoyment is coming up with a counter.

Ah so its like the difference between the "N" word ending with "a" or "er"?

I will say it in jest to a friend but in the world of 40k its nothing short of an insult.

The assumption here is that he's complaining, not that he's making a friendly comment.

Mauleed if he was complaining, yes tank his ass. Even if it were me, I would tank myself.

the_trooper: Yea in 40k we say nay-sayer not nay-saya

Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?

Yes

should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?

No

...normally my sports scoring is...

Here lies the problem, everyone has a different algorithm, it's not objective.  Whatever the criteria, the problem lies in the scoring system.  Comp/Sportsmanship is inhernetly flawed, that's what a judge is for, to judge.  There should not be an arbitrary factor in an award like overall. Eliminate it.  A restructuring solves all of this.  Predicated on a decent FAQ, a published scoring system,  the elimination of comp, and judges who actually make consistent rulings; the awards should be:

Best General: Based on VPs

Best Painted: Judges Choice

People's Choice: Popular vote

Possibly with places 1-3 for each.  Best sportsman, a noble concept, but an utter failure, is completely meaningless because "theme" and "niceness", are abstract concepts that defy metrics.

I suggest a tourney player in any kind of comp system make the devils deal:

Mark each other perfect comp and sportsman before the game flavors anything and get on with the tournament.

my bad... should read the original post more closely.

No! I just got an award for being a nice guy at my last tournament. Don't take that away from me!

I thought you and the orks player were ready to exchange blows!!! So much for Mr Nice Guy

I'm usually pretty even-keeled as far as commenting on armies, but at the Chicago GT this year, I played against 3 mech eldar players, and against the first player, I was cool, (my balanced ultramarines got spanked), 2nd player I got spanked worse, and by the time I saw that my final opponent was another mech eldar player again loaded up with edge-hugging falcons and serpents, I almost cried (ok, not really).  I'm sure I probably made a comment about how cheesy I thought mech eldar are, but I did let my opponents know why, and that it wasn't anything against them personally.

I guess I'm just saying that in my opinion, some people may have reason to complain, and it may not be anything personal against you, just try to take it in context.

So Mauleed, what are you exploiting in 07?

Posted By mauleed on 12/12/2006 10:11 AM

If you're in a no comp tournament (as all the 07 GW GTs will be), should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?

I'm of the opinion that whining about comp in a no comp tournament is inherently unsportsmanlike and deserving of a bad sports score, particularly if the person is using comp as an outlet for expressing what a sore loser they are.

Now normally my sports scoring is all or nothing. If you don't cheat and are polite, you get full points from me. If not, you get a zero and I tell you I gave you a zero (happened to do this at the last tournament I went to).

So should I be zeroing people that whine about my army during and after the game? (assuming it's a no comp tournament?) Should I bend on the all or nothing and just give them one tick from zero?

All or nothing is fine I suppose. I really dont like to zero people unless they are complete ass in front of a judge.

A little bit of moaning is somewhat fair, but crying about how "your the cheesemeister, I heard of YOU", would make me mark a foo down to nothing.

Its situational. I am forgiving and dont believe in zeroing out someone, but some people most definatly deserve it.

If I know there is no comp in the tournament, I wouldnt not complain at all knowing that I will be going up against armies that can soundly beat my army with the right combination of units. Every army has an army that is just very cheesy or hard to beat playing against. Thats is how the system of balance works out in 40k.

Is there something called cheese? Perhaps but its all in the eye of the beholder. I do belive that there are armies that abuse the rules system and are to win at any cost. I also belive that there are armies that have the proverbial "easy" mode when you play them. But that is up to the choice of the player and in the end of it all its just a game but it is in human nature to complain and if most of us werent competitive, we wouldnt be playing in tournaments in the first place.


In a tournament its usually about who you play and can be rock-paper-scissors.

If the complaining lessened the fun of the game, then yes it's bad sportsmanship. I believe one of the criteria is something like "all problems were settled amiably, this guy was a joy to play against".
I've docked people for not meeting this, whether they were complainers or the one guy that didn't say a thing the whole game, that guy creeped me out.

Zero them to set an example. I too believe I have been the target of excessive whining, and I don't believe adults should act like that! If the main rule is having fun, don't say things like "Oh man, you don't massacre me it'll be laughable, I mean you just passed 13 saves!" or "Yea, with a list like that I could probably win all my games too". Its insulting, they need to go home and rethink their attitude. Besides if they really are just playing for fun and not to win, why do they complain when their non-competative list is bent over the table?

Get a I Didn't Write the Rules, Blame the Design Studio t-shirt, or failing that, a thrust kick to your opponent's chest will make the crazy brave think twice.

Needs more Impact font.

If truly complaining, yes.

If laughing about how he's getting his @$$ kicked during/after the game ("Wow! I have no way to deal with your 9 oblits! Pretty, though." "Drop Pods, eh? I guess I'm buying the next round.") then no.

What the point complaining. Competitions are there to be won. If not there would be no prize or points scoring. If they get rid of points scoring and ranks then yes its a friendly game. But with points being awareded for winning etc obviously people will come to win with lists that are designed to do just that.

Its not cheesy its what tournies are about. So suck it up and stop all the Whining. If you dont like it dont play or do the same but just stop complaing about it. This is where the hobby is headed. the good ol days are behind us now so get over it.

ps Not directed at anybody in paticular, just generally aT ALL YOU CRY BABIES.

Whining about the comp is bad sportsmanship in any tourney, comp or not. Obviously, you won't get anywhere when you whine in a no-comp tourney so all you'll do is piss off your opponents. In a comp tourney, you're supposed to whine BEFORE the event, not during. During the event you put on a Miss America smile and hope your opponent knows that you care about world peace and ending world hunger.

Posted By MadEdric on 12/12/2006 4:27 PM
If the complaining lessened the fun of the game, then yes it's bad sportsmanship. I believe one of the criteria is something like "all problems were settled amiably, this guy was a joy to play against".
I've docked people for not meeting this, whether they were complainers or the one guy that didn't say a thing the whole game, that guy creeped me out.

I agree that would be boring.