New vehicles for Guard?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**BrotherAdso**

The idea here is that the Guard have no effective fast-deployment or light, fast vehicles at all -- except drop troops. This results in an army which is fairly uninteresting to play, and fairly inflexible at low PV.

This is a doctrine-point vehicle, often equipping otherwise armored regiments. I hoped to balance this by not allowing Guard players to take many of these (it's competeing with other useful units for its slot), and not making them capable of carrying full size squads -- hence, a fast-mounted Guard army is not an option, just as it should not be.

I'll post background on the fluff board later this afternoon...but I kinda thought one could kep with the theme of Guard vehicles being named after Primarchs (Leman Russ MBT, etc).

Jagatai Class Scout Section (45)

AV: Front      Sides       Rear     BS
       10           10             10         3

Section: The section consists of 1-3 Jaghati class scout cars.

Type: Wheeled, Fast, Open-Topped

Transport: The Scout Car can carry up to six Guard models.

Armament: Must be armed with a Heavy Bolter at +10 or Missile Launcher at +15.

Special Rules: Scouts

Special Rules: Any Guard unit of less than six models may claim a Jagatai purchased as a fast attack choice. If so, they do not have to purchase a Chimera as stated in the 'Mechanized' doctrine.

Oh yeah, also an idea for a new doctrine:

Section Organization: This regiment has abandoned traditional platoon structures of command in favor of a more flexible deployment and organization.   This is often due to battlefield casualties and degradation of communication, but can also just reflect a very independent-minded origin.

1) The regiment may choose to take 'sections' 1-3 Guard Infantry Squads or Remnants Squads with Veteran Sergeants as one troops choice rather than standard Infantry Platoons.
2) One Command Platoon must be taken if the player has more than two such sections, and two must be taken if the player takes more than four. Command Platoons may not be taken otherwise.
3) Players with Sections may not take any of the following: Advisors of any kind, Heavy Weapons Platoons, Special Weapons Platoons, Grenadiers.

Thoughts? Fluffy/Not fluffy? Balanced/Unbalanced?

-Adso

**GreenMtVince**

I'd look at FW's new Centaur and see if it fullfills the role of your scout car. As I recall it's lightly armed, open topped, fast, cheap, and has a limited transport capacity.

Beyond that, if you want to field large amounts of understrength guard infantry squads in this scout style role without the rigid guard command structure. Look at Codex Catachans. The basic Infantry platoon is what you suggest.

Not trying to shoot you down, but just pointing out there's already some playtested and legal rules that are a very close fit to what you want from the guard.

**Ogiwan**

A jeep-style vehicle is a common want among Guardsmen. The Player's Guard Codex came up with one as well, but I cannot remember what we did for it.

Still, can you provide a link to this Centaur?

**BrotherAdso**

The Centaur is up on Forgeworld's New Release page, but frankly, it looks like an overgrown scooter and their experimental rules make it available only to artillery batteries, and only capable of carrying five Guardsmen.

FLUFF

The Jagatai was recovered from an STC in the Fyrisi system in M.38, and entered general production around the same time as some of the other designs recovered from that same site, like the "Typhoon" pattern landspeeder and "Rogal Dorn" light tank. The technomagus who discovered it decided to name the vehicle after the Marine Primarch well known for his speed and deciseiveness, Jagatai Kahn of the White Scars, and the name stuck among its users.

These small, light ATVs are a common sight among Guard regiments posted to the Southern Rim, near the Forge World of Illisi, the main center of their production. Propelled by a powerful solid-combustion engine, on a four-pylon, independent-rotation system of tires, these vehicles are capable of high speed and stability on even rough terrain and in poor weather, both qualities lacking in the more commmonly deployed Guard vehicles. In addition, their interchangability of parts with common STC motorbikes and Chimera motor components makes these alrready-rugged vehicles easy to repair and maintain. Though the ATV itself is very lightly armed, the semi-enclosed rear platform provides room for a small patrol section of six Guardsmen with one heavy weapon, or a significant cargo load, making the Jagatai the patrol and enforcement vehicle of choice on sparsely-populated world, where speed is more essential than the protection or power of a Chimera.

However, they lack any sophisticated electronics or power capacity, and so are incapable of mounting most energy weapons or the targeting computers of hunter-killer missiles, and no efficient way to better armor the exposed crew or rear platform without compromising speed and stability has yet been discovered, making the Jagatai too fragile for heavy engagements.

Jagatai are usually deployed as reconnissance sections, with squads of six Guardsmen in a Jagatai flanking or moving ahead of a larger Guard force in order to disorganize enemy response to the slower formation, or as 'fast response' teams that sieze objectives and relieve heavily engaged units on the line.

AV: Front Sides Rear BS
10 10 10 3

Section: The section consists of 1-3 Jaghati class scout cars.

Type: Wheeled, Fast, Open-Topped

Crew: 2 Guardsmen, driver and gunner.

Transport: The Scout Car can carry up to six Guard models, and up to one Guard heavy weapon.

Armament: Storm Bolter. May upgraded to a Heavy Bolter at +10 or Missile Launcher at +15.

Extras: May take Camo Netting, Searchlight, Improved Comms, or Smoke Launchers.

Special Rules: Scouts, Rough Terrain Modifications are automatic.

Special Rules: Any Guard unit of six models or less with no more than one heavy weapons team may claim a Jagatai purchased as a fast attack choice. If so, they do not have to purchase a Chimera as stated in the 'Mechanized' doctrine.

**Flagg07**

Hmm, I definitely like your idea of a wheeled scout vehicle. I've been wanting something similar for a while.

What I do not care for, is taking it as a transport option. I would prefer to see it as a cross between a Salamander Scout and Sentinel.

FA choice
Light armor 10/ 10/ 10
Fast
Twin linked Auto Canons
Scout USR
NOT able to deploy via Deep Strike (no doctrines useable)
NOT airmobile (No putting it in or slinging it under a Valkyrie)
NO transport capability
Some type of target acquisition ability? Reroll barage or something similar to represent their forward reconaissance role?

**BrotherAdso**

Hmmm, I definitely like that one, but the problem is that it gives the Guard something similar to a Marine landspeeder, Vyper, etc in terms of speedy striking, scoring units -- the lack of which is one of the "balances" for the army.

The Guard need a little more flexibility, but they can't become ultra-jacks-of-all-trades. The Jagatai is a good compromise because it's not heavily armed, it has to take a slot to be a scoring unit, and at open-topped 10, it's extremely fragile for its cost.

-Adso

**Corpsman_of_Krieg**

What about a Heavy Stubber? I think that would be more fitting than a Storm Bolter.

CK

**Ogiwan**

A scooter? Oh feth that.

Now. A few things:
1.) In keeping with the Guard naming convention, I don't think it would be named after a Space Marine primarch; the Russ is the only example of that. Rather, it would be named after a mythological creature, as are....well, everything else save the Sentinal and the Russ. Hmm. The only thing that springs to mind is also a Red-vs-Blue refrence: Chupacabra.

2.) I think it's equally applicable as a scout car or as a transport; I think it could be done as follows: for it to be a transport, it loses the fast rule, or otherwise has its speed decrease, and gains the ability to transport up to 6 units; this means that an infantry squad would have to be spread out over 2 vehicles, which i think is kinda in character. However, a 3 car squad of these would still have the fast rule, and would lack transport capacity. Play with that as you will.

3.) The idea of a Fast Attack choice that's actually light making the Guard jacks-of-all-trades is extremly laughable, in my eyes, as is comparing it to the land Speeder. the Speeder, for example, is a speeder, so it ignores terrain; it can also have the Assault Cannon, which every recognizes as horribly over-lethal. The most powerful thing we've suggested is....what, autocannon? Missile launcher? Fired at BS3? Oooo, i'm frightened.

4.) I believe that the vehicle should be able to be airdropped in; HMMWVs can be airdropped in, and I imagine they're significantly heavier than this would be.

**Corpsman_of_Krieg**

This is a similar unit to the Jagatai that I've had on my computer for a little while:

<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="1" style="border: medium none ; border-collapse: collapse;"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="98" valign="top" align="center" style="border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 73.8pt;">