Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

GW just posted the 7th Edition FAQs for the general rule book, and the new O&G books.

http://us.games-workshop.com/errata/errata.htm

It's actually a pretty well written set of FAQs, too.

Well written? ulai2mi?

No. It's the usual GW garbage.

First they try to pull some jedi mind trick by explaining that the rules as they were before the FAQ didn't allow declaring charges that you knew would fail. I probably shouldn't be accusing them of any wrong doing here, as you should never attribute to malice what you can explain by incompetence. But regardless of their moronic explaination, they've definitively closed that hole.

Then they say that sliding is definitely against the rules. And if you don't do it you're a bad sport. Let me say that again: they clearly state what the rule is, then tell you that you're a jerk if you follow it.

I give it an F+. Even when they get things right, they make fools of themselves. And now before every single game of warhammer you ever play you'll have to discuss whether or not the other guy is a slider or a clipper. Bravo GW, another job well don.....well another job done.

But at least we're all another dollar richer, as you've passed us the buck!

Meh. Now I am more confused.

Ewww.... I don't really even play fantasy that much and I can tell how much that FAQ sucks. So now every WHFB player that follows the rules is a poor sport, and it's even confirmed by GW. At least in other games when you follow the RAW it's up to your opponent to act like a jerk and tell you that your unsporting, but in fantasy, GW does it for you! an F+ is generous

heh, GW at work once again.....nice....

Posted By mauleed on 12/20/2006 4:23 AM

No. It's the usual GW garbage.

 

Then they say that sliding is definitely against the rules. And if you don't do it you're a bad sport. Let me say that again: they clearly state what the rule is, then tell you that you're a jerk if you follow it.

I think you're kind of off on this.  They say that yes, technically to the letter of the rule sliding is illegal, but if sliding helps move the game along, is agreed upon by both players, and makes for a more fun sporting game, its advised to use it to negate clipping and some other awkward situations.  Sounds decently reasonable to me.

So telling people to ignore their own rules is reasonable to you? Saying following the rules is poor sportsmanship and that's the companies official stance, is reasonable to you? I suggest than that perhaps you yourself aren't particularly reasonable.

These idiots had a perfect opportunity to put the issue to complete rest and they blew it. There's no reason they could not have put this issue to bed for all time, but their either too lazy or too incompetent to do it. Or maybe they just think it's funny. regardless, a crappy job yet again.

 

wow, nice mature personal attack as a comeback as well, shows me why you find the ruling so unreasonable... guess that teaches me to try to offer a different point of view on Dakka in a civil manner

Sorry but GW-apologist bologna is going to get nothing but scorn from me.

and obviously there's not a lot of substance to your opinion on this or you'd have responded with something more substancial than "you hurt my feelings".

Hey, at least WHFB players didn't have to wait two years! "Games Workshop, incompetence is what we do!"

Is it just me, or does it seem assinine for GW to release a FAQ clarification which says that the rules do not alow a certain action, and then says that the rules as written are optional?!??

Try applying this to other situations: "It is required that drivers use their turn signals when changing lanes, however, many drivers find this step tiresome, so this step may be skipped due to convenience...!" The "clarification" kinda invalidates the reasoning behind the original ruling doesn't it.

I said nothing about you hurting my feelings, only our maturity level in attacking my opinion (instead of illiciting a civil response) which you continue to display in spades. Nor am I a GW apologist, I just read more into something than trying to find the negative first and found what they really meant. And I gave the substance of my opinion in my first post, I don't feel it needs to be defended to the death as you do with yours. If you are so angry and bitter at all that is GW, then maybe you should find other places to post, that might give you a much needed break and allow your blood pressure to come down a bit. Relax, it's a game and a hobby and nothing more.

Uh, I'm pretty sure the one that needs to be relaxing here is you and not Ed.

Well, while I agree in principle that the whole "you can clip by rules but we suggest you slide thing" is sticky, the rest of the FAQ is actually pretty helpful and clear. And really, I would rather have a FAQ/Errata released 3 months after the book is published that solved several problems but left one messy than wait a few years (like the 40k rule book FAQs.) Of course, the holy grail has yet to be achieved, but overall, I would call this a step forward from GW.

And realistically, the whole clipping issue is a miniscule one in the grand scheme of things. As a weekly WHFB player, and having attended a few tournaments in the past few months, I can say that the clipping issue has never come up. So while I agree that the issue is messy, I am confident that it will rarely (if ever) crop up and slow down a game. Good gaming!

Posted By keezus on 12/20/2006 7:56 AM
Is it just me, or does it seem assinine for GW to release a FAQ clarification which says that the rules do not alow a certain action, and then says that the rules as written are optional?!??

Try applying this to other situations: "It is required that drivers use their turn signals when changing lanes, however, many drivers find this step tiresome, so this step may be skipped due to convenience...!" The "clarification" kinda invalidates the reasoning behind the original ruling doesn't it.

the rules have always been optional. you can choose to follow them or not. the only time rules issues really come to the forefront are at tournaments where "friendly house rules" and "equally friendly decisions" are left to the side and all out rules lawyerism is brought out in spades.

It still says feel free to use or don't use whatever rules you and your friends like in the front of the book.. It has for years. 

Posted By Zoned on 12/20/2006 10:22 AM
Well, while I agree in principle that the whole "you can clip by rules but we suggest you slide thing" is sticky, the rest of the FAQ is actually pretty helpful and clear.

While I agree that the whole 'exploding gas tank thing" is sticky, the rest of the Ford Pinto is actually a pretty good car.

And I wasn't planning on getting rammed in the rear anyway, so it's not an issue.

 

better a Ford Pinto than an AMC Pacer..

Several people have said bad things about GW, and yet Toreador hasn't lept in to tell people not to buy the game. When did he die?

Got to be tough for his family, what with a death so close to Christmas. Our prayers are with you, Toreador's family.

Posted By Triggerbaby on 12/20/2006 11:32 AM

Several people have said bad things about GW, and yet Toreador hasn't lept in to tell people not to buy the game. When did he die?

Got to be tough for his family, what with a death so close to Christmas. Our prayers are with you, Toreador's family.

Ed, I agree it would be great if GW would publish a perfect, air-tight ruleset. I simply disagree that the rules are so badly written that the games (especially Warhammer Fantasy,) are no fun, and require hours of debate and argument to play. And yes, I know there are no rules on how to resolve ordnance...yadda yadda yadda, and I wish there were. But despite all the shortcommings, I can honestly say I do enjoy their games thoroughly, and feel I'm getting good value for my dollar. If that makes me a fool or a fanboy, so be it. I do play other miniature games as well, and while I find them fun, my only complaint is that they don't get supported as much compared to GW (and by support I mean things to do besides gaming with the buds.) I wish there were more tournaments, more conventions, more competitions in general, for the other wargaming companies out there. Anyway sir, I wish you good gaming!

Zoned

And I agree that a pinto is a perfectly good car, right up to the point where the other car smashes into the rear of you and you burn to death. And that's what you're saying. The rules are great, just as long as you don't get yourself into any sticky situations.

I don't care how the game works when I play my friends. I don't care that most of the time there are no arguments and the rules work. I want to be able to play strangers without having to debate how to handle commonly occuring situations.

In all the years I've been playing games GW has never, ever been able to put out any rule without including some minimum amount of incompetence, as if simply getting the job done right had some special tax on it.

It's my place in the universe to point out that the product these men are so proud of is garbage. Everything they do is a near miss. It's not like they don't have the time, or resources to do it right. They simply lack the skill. It's like the engineers took the day off so their secretaries designed the product instead. I presume they pay them like secretaries instead of engineers, so I shouldn't be suprised.

On the sliding/clipping question, what percentage of gamers, per those that you have met, are clippers instead of sliders?

I don't think I've met one yet.

I enjoy my miniature games much more now that I ignore the rules entirely. I just push my little dollies around the table and make exciting noises and sound effects. Works out much better, and there are no rules to debate!

Stupid rules.

The point I was trying to get across was: I understand the games aren't perfect. And in my gaming experience, the games are not so bad that I can't play regularly and not run into constant rules debates. I play regularly in the Canadian GW Hall or Heroes system, which means I travel a bit to get out to the local tournaments. I play strangers all the time, yet my games go smoothly 95% of the time. The times when they don't go smoothly are usually against guys who didn't know the basic rules in the first place.

I understand that this is simply my personal experience, and other gamers may consistently run into those "sticky situations." But I can only speak from personal experience, which is why I see this utter exasperation expressed at GW's FAQs/erratas as over-exaggerated and misleading.

Zoned

While we're ignoring rules...

My General is an Empire engineer lord armed with a brace of great cannons.  Once per game he also counts as a hellblaster and all misfire rolls may be rerolled because he is an Engineer.  Lord.  And his name is Kurt Beatrix VonHauptmann III.  Oh, he also has an unmodifiable 2+ ward save.  Man Nuln rules!

I can't wait.

The point seems to be GW supposedly writes rules.

To clarify a sticky situation in the rules, instead of writing rules, they tell you to ignore the rules or else you're a bad sport.

As rules, it's just not a good product.

Just for you.

If you don't like it, don't play it and don't buy it. Solves the whole having to female dog about it.

Clipping has been a problem all along, and it is a rough one to solve. We play a lot, and it does come up every so often. Just not a huge issue to us, or most of us.

What would you do to fix it Ed? Do all or nothing? Set requirements?

 All of you are ignoring the real question why did they put the sixth edition rules for clipping in the 7th edition FAQ?  Just ignore the FAQ it is completely and utterly pointless and answers no useful questions. Even the Faq says clipping is not the prefered method, if your opponent has a problem with that hit them in the head with the rule book theres a reason its a hard back

Posted By Toreador on 12/20/2006 4:24 PM


What would you do to fix it Ed? Do all or nothing? Set requirements?

It's a simple fix. The unit that charges slides the minimum required to get all the models from both sides fighting. No sliding after that first phase. If impassable terrain or other units won't allow the slide, then no slide occurs (though you may fudge the original wheel all that is required). Done.