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Hey guys,

I for one like the new generation of gaming, i.e pre painted minis, with nice rules.

Time is pretty valuable for me. No, I don't hold down a nine to five job. However, I hold down a 7-4 school work day, then another three hours a day homework.

When I take 5 hrs + per mini, you end up playing with a lot of primed figures, which isn't too fun.

The games i'm looking forward to A LOT are:

AT-43: Got boxed set coming, but looking forward to the newer releases

Battlefield evolution: Cool nicely painted figs.

What are your opinions on this? I know some hate the idea, but i'm all up for embracing it and getting some FUN gaming in.

Chuck

Well I saw what the AT-43 Mini's look like at the store, and I was not terribly impressed.

I disagree with the future being "bright" because by eliminating the modeling and painting part of the hobby, you really are turning it from a hobby into just a game.

I know where you are coming from though, one of the reasons I didnt take up this hobby when i was in school is because I thought it would take forever, and while it does, it is kind of like your dad's train set downstairs with the people waving at the train going by. I had never really understood why people did the model train thing until i took up 40k as a hobby, instead of just a game

Pre-painted makes mini-gaming just a game but there's more to miniature wargaming than just the gaming aspect. I find that while I started off just wanting to play the modeling/painting aspect is the more fulfilling part. Anyone can open up a box full of pre-painted minis, throw together a quick game and then shelf the thing with nary a thought. The games that are played without pre-painted minis require a certain amount of dedication and it is in fact that part of the hobby that appeals to me. Players of CCGs, for example, don't have the same attachment to thier decks as even the lowlyest of miniature gamers have to thier armies. Each miniature army represents more than just a game when it's pitted against its lovingly crafted rival on the table top. They both represent a great deal of time, effort and dedication on the part of both parties. That is the hobby to me and games with pre-painted armies just don't fit the bill. They're just that, games nothing more.

Well, I have to agree with you guys as well.

Pre painted will never quite fit in with the gaming i've been doing for 3+ years now...however, it does look good for an afternoon of fun with a couple of mates.

I think rather than as the end to all, it should be viewed as a valid alternative.

Chuck

The first rule is: always make it easy for people to give you money.

There are any number of reasons why the companies are moving towards prepainted figures. You can play the game straight from the box without all that tedious assembly and painting- and everyone (in Marketing) knows that teenagers have the most disposable income and the least patience, and are totally unable to delay gratification for any reason because we have been training them that way since birth, and need to keep it up so our pals at the credit card companies have a consumer base in a couple of years. Prepainting has gotten even cheaper now that the technology allows machines to do it, and do it faster & better than the sweatshop labor in China did just a couple of years ago. Prepainted minis also are consistently nicer than when humans were assembly-lining them, too, which makes them more sellable.

And when something gets to be sellable, the really big corporations get interested. The trouble with really big corporations is, they are notoriously short-term thinkers when it comes to profit.

My worry about the future of the hobby, as opposed to the future of gaming, is that one day a few years from now you won't be able to buy an unpainted miniature. There won't be any model kits of Carnifexes or Bretonnian Knights to assemble and convert. You will be able to buy an overpackaged toy off the shelf at Wal-Mart to use in your game, and it will be just the same as everyone else's. What was that game Hasbro put out a couple years ago? It had different color hexes that you snapped together to make terrain, and a bunch of units from history and fantasy and sci-fi that could be used. It seems to have died out; I can't even remember the name. And that is what worries me. When it becomes a game, it will be supported as long as it is profitable, and then it will be dropped. Remember Pogs? Pokemon? Click-CrimsonSkies? The target market for games is fickle. 

The hobby aspect- the painting and converting- has kept my interest in spite of several rules changes over the years, rules changes that have, in the past, turned large portions of one army or another into useless dust-collectors.  How many toy railroad sets do you see at Sears or Wal-Mart?  Maybe one or two.  Yet how many hobby shops are devoted to model railroad supplies almost exclusively?  Sears may spark the interest, but they don't support its' growth.  Compare the garish plastic Barbie Condo to the handmade dollhouse with working lights and running water.  Which was more fun to make?  Which is nicer to play with?  Intro sets like Battle for Maccragge or Battle for Skull Pass are not just games, they introduce you to another aspect, the hobby aspect, they get you off the couch and away from the Wii and doing something with your hands and your imagination.  The AT-43 set doesn't offer that.  And I think, without that intangible expectation that YOU will build this miniature, YOU will paint this miniature, YOU will show everyone what you can do- without that expectation that you will invest your time and creativity in this game- I think that the games will get played a while and then shut in the closet. 

Yeah, it's not like we play 40K for the rules, is it?

Posted By chuckyhol on 12/30/2006 5:32 PM

Hey guys,

I for one like the new generation of gaming, i.e pre painted minis, with nice rules.

Time is pretty valuable for me. No, I don't hold down a nine to five job. However, I hold down a 7-4 school work day, then another three hours a day homework.

When I take 5 hrs + per mini, you end up playing with a lot of primed figures, which isn't too fun.

The games i'm looking forward to A LOT are:

AT-43: Got boxed set coming, but looking forward to the newer releases

Battlefield evolution: Cool nicely painted figs.

What are your opinions on this? I know some hate the idea, but i'm all up for embracing it and getting some FUN gaming in.

Chuck

Its not the matter of it looking bright. Its a matter of what game company is going to be left to have a game to put out that lasts for more then a year or two.

I don't see the difference between the so called " New Idea" of prepaints and playing my game with a bag of plastic marx army men. If anything the plastic Marx army men had alot better selection of different sets.( I could at least pick cowboys or WW2.)
How do you figure that by the look of one game and a bunch of talk from mongoose that this is the supposed future of gaming? I see table top gaming as we know it dying on the vine.

The prepaint phase is just another nail in its coffin along side the computer game, and the lack of desire to see a new and improved product. When once there were in the realm of fifty plus gaming companies, how many have fell by the wayside, and how many others have been vicitims of thier own bad management, just because they thought that they were the future of gaming?

We are now reduced to around five to seven companies, and all of them suck. Of course you get a one off here and there, but really, is that really as much of a choice as there once was? Where is the freedom to experiment with something new? where are the fun ones at? You can pick between generic painted army number one, that looks exactly like everyone elses, you can choose to buy seven or nine figures and an overpriced box, or you can pay fifty dollers for five plastic termamator suits or a beast that metal only cost 25.00 not a year ago.

Computer games, prepaints, and lack of imagination are killing gaming as a hobby, and putting it more into the toy store market. When once there was a variety, now there is medeocrity, and bottom line will determine what I have as a choice to game with.

Call me a cynic, but what choice do we really have? Play with what were told to, or not at all.

 

The point behind painting the figures was a hobby. It was a way to pass time that was an outlet to expand your skill, your creativity, and your imagination. Not to mention we have a little competition with painting, modeling,and playing your favorite game.Now we are told what to buy, as almost as stale as GW's silly ass "You will fight to the death in close combat with this fifty doller squad of no nothing hacks... because we said so."

I still paint, but with the supposed new ideas of prepaints, slowly there will be no need for the paint, and after that, no need for a local gaming shop, because I'll be able to buy my prepainted miniatures from Toy's R US. Right next to the Heroscape, or probibly by ,or from Hasbro, who will snatch up a well known workshop that has to do with games. because, who wants to buy a box of unpainted, unassembeled guys when I can pay double, for half as many that are painted, and all ready to play... for five minutes.

This isn't a " New Generation",Its the death of one.

Whoah there! I don't know that pre-paints are any kind of death knell for the hobby. They're an alternative but those that are attracted to that kind of thing will have been playing Pirates, Clickies, CCG's , board games, or who knows what else instead of WH40K, Warmachine or FoW.
The folks, like most of us, who are into table top mini games aren't just going to disapear because "something easier" came along. Besides pre-painted table top mini game is more akin to a Clicky game than say 40K it just removes the "colectable" aspect.
This "future" of miniature wargames is just a phase and, in time, will pass. It will be fun while it lasts but I don't think it will last.

Pre-painted stuff isn't gonna kill the hobby. High prices and bad rules aren't gonna kill it either (it would have long ago if it was). As long as people want to build and paint toy soldiers, GW games and others like it will always be around. If anything, I see the pre-painted games as another way to introduce more people to miniature gaming.. they start with their clix games and one day decide they wanna get into something more creative..

The future of miniatures wargames will be what it has always been: a few big players producing large quantities of figs in specific ranges for specific rules sets (Foundry, Ral Partha, if we want older examples), with lots and lots of little companies--either specific sculptors or guys with access to a CAD or some other design technology, or a handful of people saying "you know what? we need rules for zombies vs. lumberjacks!"--making their wares available.

Right now there's a bevy of stuff available to the discerning miniatures/toy soldiers hobbyist. There's historicals for just about every time period and army and most scales (yes, I'm sure someone is making baggage trains for SYW in 20mm), myriad sci-fi and fantasy figs in scales of 2mm(!) to 90mm, from cheap (30 zombies for ~$20) to high-end (GW, Thunderbolt Mountain), scenery made from paper to resin to wood to plaster in every scale, several companies/individuals painting figures and armies for pay, and I haven't even gotten into the slew of rules sets available, from 5150 and No Quarter/No Limits to the ones we all know about (GW, PP, Rackham) to old tried-and-trues (Battletech, Stargrunt) and even OOP rules finding new life (Shockforce). You can get lost going through all the options.

Everybody freaked out when Magic cards and the whole CCG thing started, and they freaked out when MageKnight came out, then Heroclix, Mechwarrior, D&D minis, Pirates, etc. Now we've got Battlefield Evolution and AT-43. Guess what? Some people will get excited by them, and some people will pass. I have clicky figs, but it doesn't mean I've stopped playing/painting 'real' mini games. They serve different purposes.

If anything kills miniature games, it'll be console and computer games, but then again, ours has always been a niche hobby. Now we're a niche hobby with more resources. Game companies come and go (Heartbreaker, Ral Partha, Target, I-Kore), Game Stores too (Rogue's Den RIP), but the hobby's doing just fine. More variety, more really great figs in different scales, more possibilities. But please, let me know when the sky falls.

Prepainted has always been around. Dont fool yourselves into beleiving this is anything more than a schism of the toy industry.

The original G'I'Joes were made so that boys had dollies to play with as well.

Toys will always be around, as they are an outlet for creativity and imagination. Creativity doesnt fall under how many minis you paint, but in the diversion you immerse your self in.

I still toil over my unpainted stuff, with aspirations of one day finishing them. But I enjoy the games that come ready to play. Pirates of the spanish main is (for me) a godsend. I can have an immersive experience in my imagination without all of the fuss and hassle of toiling before I get to even step up to the table. They all have their place.

Remember people, were just playing with dollies here. Our dollies just happen to be awesome.

QFT. Syr = awesome. Exalt. (Wherever that last came from).

There's a great article here:

http://www.hmgs.org/history.htm

Which makes a convincing case for why computer games don't really seem likely to supplant miniatures games. They may kill solo map & counter wargames, which are also a less social activity, lacking the hobby aspect. But miniatures wargames have strong social and hobby aspects which computer games really can't emulate.

The "Exalt" and "Smite"' are from Karma functions in the OTZone. Sadly, the Karma scores are fleeting in the winds of chaos that sweep through the wasteland.

That is a good article by the way. Very interesting.

I'm with fellblade.

I feel that pre-painted miniatures are the easiest ways to improve the accessibility of miniature games for the consumer.

I just had a huge conversation on msn with Trevor (MNM, Cudz, etc.) about this stuff...

They fill an important niche. D&D and Star Wars prepainted minis have been tremendously successful.

I think there's room for both unpainted and pre-painted. At the moment I'm likely only to pick up pre-painted minis since I've got about a five year backlog in my mini-painting queue.

I also know a bunch of people who never got into 40K/WFB because they thought they couldn't paint. Pre-painted gives these people a gateway into the hobby.

Syr, Hellfury and Mannahnin have all said what I would have (Ragnar, you should visit us over in the Wasteland) and that boils down to this: The Future of Gaming is indeed looking good.

Just because prepainted figures are gaining some traction doesn't mean that unassembled multi-part kits are going the way of the dodo. Look at scale models for comparisons, there are plenty of "toy" vehicles of expertly assembled and prepainted models on the market now, but never has there been a time when more kits, more options and more support were available to the hobbyist. There are resin and pewter conversions/corrections, photo-etched frets and plastic accessories for even the most obscure of subjects these days.

Even if GW somehow goes tits up (Tom Kirby, lol), it's IP is way, way too profitable to disappear. It's also not like their figures can't be used in other wargames (just as other company's figures are often used in theirs). Then there is historicals, which will never go away, not in my lifetime at least. No, anytime I hear someone saying that "prepainteds are killing the hobby" I can only think of chicken little.

  I agree.  Look at where miniatures were forty years ago compared with today.  Miniature gaming is doing tremendously well. 

I agree. Just one more step up the ladder.

If you really dont like the prepainted model you can always re paint it yourself. its a winn win situation.

It's interesting how people view this hobby...

You got one camp who thinks wargames are nothing without pretty playing peices.

You got another who just want to play a game.

You have the social aspect of opportunity to play and quality of play.

You have some who think that tabletop gaming is fast becoming the golden-oldie to HD computer games.

Everyone is right and it's all true. People will play games for the game's sake , while others paint amazing armies, while still others hang out online fragging the be-jesus out of each other in death matches. The thing is the hobby is not bright or bleak...the hobby is changing. Change is the best way to characterize what's going on now.

True, its funny how once in a while you get a poster that does not post much but when they do its words of wisdom rather than the usual nonsence that other poster (like myself) post

BraVo Sir/Madam

That's because he's a space fold. He launches wisdom from light years away
with minimum effort.

Beef, on the other hand, will give you heart disease. Even though you love
every bite.