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A list I whipped up.. think this is still viable for tourney play? The list got nerfed pretty badly for 4E (Loss of SC shot, loss of storm guardian squads, and VE isn't useful for this kind of list.). On the other hand, ES got cheaper, and SLs gained an extra shot. Nothing really notable for positives.

x1 Farseer w/ Ghosthelm, Jetbike, Witness, E. Storm

x1 Falcon w/ SC/SHC+, HF/SS
x1 Falcon w/ SC/SHC+, HF/SS
x1 Falcon w/ SC/SHC+, HF/SS

x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SL/SHC+, SS
x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SL/SHC+, SS
x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SL/SHC+, SS
x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SL/SHC+, SS

x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SHC/SHC+, SS
x5 Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent w/ SHC/SHC+, SS

(1843/1850)

Posted By red120 on 01/01/2007 1:58 AM
loss of storm guardian squads

What?

As for the list, give the faseer a spear for starters, it's a cheap upgrade that is well worth it. Your list is really boring, but at least you have target saturation taken care of. Things would get very interesting when your avengers get shot to death and suddenly you have almost no scoring units.

I see Eldritch Storm helping vs. high armor, but it isn't the most reliable and it can only effect one vehicle per turn. Also, what happens against a Monolith or Land Raider (although I rarely see the latter).

I'd get some different Aspects in there, especially a unit or two of Fire Dragons.

Skimmer armies can be tough and this one is no exception, 9 tanks is still nothing to sneeze at. I think you could afford to lose one of them in order to get points to vary weapons a bit as you will need a couple EML or Brightlances (expensive).

Good luck.

Posted By Wayfarer on 01/01/2007 2:30 AM

Posted By red120 on 01/01/2007 1:58 AM
loss of storm guardian squads

What?

As for the list, give the faseer a spear for starters, it's a cheap upgrade that is well worth it. Your list is really boring, but at least you have target saturation taken care of. Things would get very interesting when your avengers get shot to death and suddenly you have almost no scoring units.

The storm minimum went from 5 to 10, which makes it a loss for being the nominal squad choice for grabbing wave serpents. Losing the FDS is kinda a harsh blow; anyways, I think it's pretty obvious the avengers are never really meant to get out of the transports unless they're shot out, which is gonna happen to a few, but hey :|

Posted By Sarigar on 01/01/2007 3:48 AM
I see Eldritch Storm helping vs. high armor, but it isn't the most reliable and it can only effect one vehicle per turn. Also, what happens against a Monolith or Land Raider (although I rarely see the latter).

I'd get some different Aspects in there, especially a unit or two of Fire Dragons.

Skimmer armies can be tough and this one is no exception, 9 tanks is still nothing to sneeze at. I think you could afford to lose one of them in order to get points to vary weapons a bit as you will need a couple EML or Brightlances (expensive).

Good luck.

Actually I was thinking of ignoring monoliths and raiders, as ridiculous as it might seem.. with the volume of mid strength shots I'm gonna be pumping out, I can at least eliminate one necron unit a turn, I hope, and probably viably trade shots with the land raider with the pulse lasers, although it isn't really a good idea... banking on people not taking them.

Not too much a fan of the EML or BL, as I think they're overpriced and not very effective versus many targets, but I'm open to it if it works... what kind of payload would you recommend specifically?

You want runes of warding, not of witnessing. Witnessing runes increase your farseer's chances of toasting his brain.



Let's run those numbers...
If every grav tank shoots every weapon at a single necron warrior unit, you will average 13.3 downed necrons. The res orb will negate the effects of pulse lasers, allowing 6 or 7 to get up the following turn, and the monolith will bring back another 3 or 4, for a grand total of about 3 or 4 dead necron warriors per turn of firing.

If you throw in every shot from every avenger, you're looking at another 3 knocked down, of which 1 or 2 will get back up.

For each tank that is shaken, your casualties will go down between about 10-12% for that turn, depending whether it's a falcon or wave serpent. If you shoot at destroyers or immortals, your casualties will drop by about 15%

Of course, a smart necron player will just shoot mostly at the wave serpents, since without vectored engines each glancing hit has a 1/3 chance of destroying the grav tank (and killing 2-3 of the dire avengers inside).  Of course you'll want to keep your avengers inside, because one burst of fire from 3 destroyers will wipe out a dire avenger unit, even in 5+ cover.

It looks to me like a necron army, particularly one with a monolith, is the rock to your scissors. But you will pwn any scarabs

Thanks Flavius, actually, after doing the numbers it's quite surprising to see the damage output of the army is so low versus Necrons. But what could solve that? To put in intercept hawks is quite inefficient against any other army, and it's one of the few ways to take down the 'lith. Otherwise, even with CC troops, the necrons will just pop out in their turn and double-tap. Looks like it might be a necessary evil to have such a bad matchup?

Whipped up a new list that might work to have a fast CC element to finish off squads though, and if I sweep them, they won't get any WBB. Only reason the seer doesn't have a spear is because I couldn't scrounge the points for it, and if he's gonna be ES'ing every turn, he won't be able to use it anyways. Jetbikes are going to JSJ, since I figured the DA's weren't gonna do anything, and for the points of a DA-serpent SHC/SHC+ config, I can get 3 SHC's on jetbikes that are also scoring units.

x1 Farseer w/ Ghosthelm, Jetbike, Eldritch Storm
x1 Autarch w/ Mandi, Jetbike, Lance

x3 Shining Spears w/ Ex. Withdraw, SL

x3 Jetbike w/ SHC+
x3 Jetbike w/ SHC+
x3 Jetbike w/ SHC+

x1 Falcon w/ SHC+, SC, SS+HF
x1 Falcon w/ SHC+, SC, SS+HF
x1 Falcon w/ SHC+, SC, SS+HF

x1 Wave Serpent w/ SHC+, SL, SC
(x5 Fire Dragons)
x1 Wave Serpent w/ SHC+, SL, SC
(x5 Fire Dragons)
x1 Wave Serpent w/ SHC+, SL, SC
(x5 Fire Dragons)

(1850/1850)

I think the army concept is flawed. Cookie-cutter works for space marines because their troops are flexible. That approach for Eldar just leaves big tactical gaps in your force's capabilities.

The best way to kill necrons is in hand-to-hand with power weapons and outnumbering. Shining spears can get a few of them, which is why the necron player will open up on your shining spears with deepstriking immortals, fast-moving, long-range destroyers (who can also instakill autarchs and farseers), and that annoying low-AP thing the monolith does if you come anywhere near the warriors. It's possible to ignore the monolith, but you still gotta kill necrons dead if you want to win.

The idea of creating target saturation with a lot of grav tanks is the good part of this list. But it has too much of a space marine minmax structure to it. Unlike marines, upgrades and characters are not luxuries for Eldar; they're what make the army viable for tournaments.