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looking to start either a trait marine army(w/furious charge) or blood angels

news of a marine redux and blood angels revision far off has left me with no decision on the two

still my plan for either would be to:

run a couple of tact squads w/melta guns, maybe fists in rhinos

a couple of scout squads, infiltrate good and bp+ccw can support other marines, better for angels as they get fc and help death company(for now)

a chap led assault squad only way beside lib w/term command and fury+darkness to have a siginificant marine hq(at least trait and codex)would be death company if i play angels

a couple more assault squads

and a few whirlwinds to provide cover fire for the troops to advance

plan is to have a fast hard hitting force, whirlwind hopefully pins, scouts can tangle up units or counter charge for marines out of rhinos and assault squads can hit where needed. i just want to knwo if this is a decent idea it sounds pretty good in theory(primarily with multiple whirlies and chap assautl or death company)but could it work, im not looking for tournament style but still competitive and fun, i really want to avoid assault cannons(could get enough complaining with small scout sqauds and death company)

i obviosuly lack anti-tank but dont know what i could subsitiute i really want to keep the whirlies for my theme, maybe just cram enough powerfists into the list and hope to win combats and take the occasional loss to mech eldar or tau.

any thoughts on armaments for the squads i have never played assault style marines

I personally don't think a Space Marine Redux is going to drastically change a basic Space Marine army, so building a Marine army is still pretty safe.

I would guess some adjustments would be made to the Assault Cannon and Drop Pods. I have no idea if they would force the 5 man, 10 man strong squads like the Dark Angels are getting.

If you really want a Death Company and turbo charged Rhinos, then go the Blood Angels. Looks like they'll not get looked at in 2007 at all.

If you like the BA paint scheme, you can always paint a vanilla Marine army red.

yeah my plan was to play a blood angels successor chapter and play with either traits or blood angel rules, probably play angels until i see more about the marine redux but it should effect them the same amount, no using any assault cannons or pods so the only thing im concerned about is the 5-10 split i will plan for it and if it doesn't happen i can probably just adjust squad sizes.

i thoughtof purchasing the space marine battleforce for this plan as it comes with

10 marines, 1 rhino, 5 marines, 5 assault marines, and 5 scouts

how hard do you think it would be to convert the combat patrol marines into assault marines, i could do some cuttign to reposition the legs or elevate them with scenery or flying bases and i beleive they still sell the jump pack bag so that shouldnt be  a problem, how difficult to you think it would be, or should i try something else. i have never cut the legs of marines to make them running but i have seen models with it done and it doesn't look to complicated. is there a better solution i want to get this army up and running quickly and prefer plastic models for conversion purposes anyway.

The jump pack and proper weapons would be sufficient for me calling them Assault Marines. If you want to go and cut up legs, you can. If you just want running legs, I'd look into some of the bits services available online.

As a BA player I may be a bit biased, but I'd say BA > traited w/FC. If you do traited w/FC and something else it could be worthwhile, depending.

What's this about a SM redux? First I've heard of it. How reliable is this, and when is it supposedly comming out? I don't really think even traited marines are all that overwhelming, does it really need to be fixed so bad? What am I missing?

BA are a very broken army. They will beat trait Marines any day.

I wouldn't worry about the BA Codex or the Marines Redux in planning this list unless you paint very, very slowly.

I've given this spiel a half dozen times on these forums, so I know it by heart:

Take a couple 6 man Las/Plas squads. They're a Marines standby, and for BAs they double as a great source of Death Company. Naked Sarge leading the sqads.

Take a couple 6 man Scout squads. The absolute best way to get DC models, plus they've got a ton of CC offense. Again, naked sarge.

Don't bother with Tac marines in a Rhino. I use a squad of 10 with a Fist and a Meltagun, but I mostly just have them because I wanted to paint Forgeworld doors for the Rhino. It's hard to get the charge with them, and normal Tac Marines don't have pistol+ccw. They're not a terrible unit, they can help Jump Packers clean stuff up, they can jump out and shoot a Melta at a tank, they can tarpit enemies to set up Jump Packers, and the Rhino is rolling cover, but you don't want to put too many points into these sorts of units.

I run a Vindicator and a Baal Predator (H Bolter Sponsons). I'd sooner drop the Vindicator. The Baal is a great tank, very flexible, puts out a lot of fire. It's a great value overall.

You need at least one 10 man Assault Squad, maybe more. Give them a Power Fist. You might try a 6 man Assault squad with Fist and Meltabombs. I've never run it, but my experience with BAs tells me it could be nice. People can forget Meltabombs are out there. Don't risk them too much. Keep them in cover and spend an extra turn to get there safely, and get the charge.

Death Company should be large if you've taken the small Scout and Tac squads, and should have a few Fists. Death Company is the most broken unit in the game, they're incredibly durable, incredibly cheap, incredibly vicious on the charge. In case it's not obvious, give them Jump Packs and a Chaplain (keep him simple, but give him Term Honors). You don't want to get too cocky with them, keep them out of sight until they charge, but if you have to risk them, so be it. They're almost twice as tough as normal Marines, and it might be worth it just to demoralize your opponent as half his army's shooting knocks down one or two of them. The basic DC model gets 4 attacks on the charge, S5 I5. They always win.

So, paint them up, give them a try. I promise you'll be bored with wiping everyone off the table long before a new Marines or BA codex comes out.