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Does an orb of ressurection let you let you roll even if an entire squad has been wiped out?

No

But even if a squad is wiped out, you can still roll as long as there's another squad of the same type within 6" of the place they went down, right? Orb or no orb?

And a Necron lord can always roll regardless?

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 01/20/2007 8:04 PM
But even if a squad is wiped out, you can still roll as long as there's another squad of the same type within 6" of the place they went down, right? Orb or no orb?

And a Necron lord can always roll regardless?

Correct on both counts.


Edit: and by "regardless", I imagine you mean as long as the necron lord has a res orb.

So if my Lord w/ Orb is killed by a Railgun, he can still roll ? Even if he is dead he benefits from the Orb he has ?

I'm still learning these too--I recently decided to actually figure out necrons instead of just winging it.

Looks to me like from the rules, if it's a T5 lord and he doesn't have an orb, and there's no other orb within 6", then a st10 railgun can prevent him getting a WBB roll. But if he has an orb, then he gets the reroll even if he's just been instakilled by a str10 shot.

In practice it looks like you'll pretty much never get to instakill a necron lord, since the T5 version (without the destroyer body, which makes him immune to instakills) pretty much always has a res orb.

Yeah they may as well make necron lords 140 pts and allow 60 points of wargear. Its just insane to not use an orb.

But thats correct. A necron lord can always get a WBB roll from an instakill shot if he has an orb, or is within 6" of another orb.

Now to the original question.

A necron warrior squad is completly wiped out by instakill. The entire squad is within 6" of a orb.

only half of the downed necrons are within 6" of another necron warrior model from a different squad.

Result: Half ot the warriors get WBB rolls (the downed warriors that were within 6" of another necron warrior)

When making WBB rolls there are certain order of operations to be followed.

• 1) Was the model killed by instakill?
• 1A) If not, then the model is eligible for WBB. Proceed to 2.
  
• 1B) If yes, is it within 6" of a res orb?
  
• 1Ba) If not, the model is not eligible for WBB. Proceed to 3.
  
• 1Bb) If yes, then proceed to 2

• 2) Is the model within 6" of another model of its type, or within 12" of a tomb spyder (and there is another unit of the same type somewhere in play on the battlefield)?
  
• 2A) If not, then the model is not eligible for WBB. Proceed to 3.
  
• 2B) If yes, then the model is eligible for WBB and is placed anywhere within coherency with the same type of unit within 6" if a successful WBB roll is made.

• 3) Remove casualties that were either not eligible for WBB roll or have failed it.
  
• 3A) If failed, and the models in the unit are at least partially within 18" of a monolith, the monolith may attempt to phase the unit out and emerge from the portal of the monolith. Reroll failed WBB rolls once the unit is deployed from the portal.

Because of this, I do not lay the necron down on its side. I replace that model with a blank 25 mm base.
The reason being is that it is quite difficult to tell if a necron casualty is actually within 6" of another necron of the same unit type (or within 12" of a tomb spyder). (where do you measure distance on a model that is on it's side?)
The whole "laying of the necron casualties on its side" idea is flawed when trying to figure out a casualties exact location.

Hopefully, this issue will be addressed in the next print, especially since they are gearing the game for tournament play.

Posted By Hellfury on 01/21/2007 8:16 AM

• 
  
• 3A) If failed, and the models in the unit are at least partially within 18" of a monolith, the monolith may attempt to phase the unit out and emerge from the portal of the monolith. Reroll failed WBB rolls once the unit is deployed from the portal.

I'd like to point out for clarification, that since the teleport function of the Monolith can happen either before OR after the Monolith's move, the 18" range should NOT be measured until the actual Telport attempt occurs, NOT when you decide you may want to use the 'Lith to re-roll W.B.B.'s.

Also note that in the original example stated, none of the downed unit may use the Portal on the 'Lith; As they are all dead, there simply is NO unit there to be teleported!

 

P.S. Edit:

BTW Hellfury, as the measurement for WBB status is now USUALLY measured at the time of "death" (most notably for resorb status) it's safe to assume you can measure BEFORE you lie the models down, partially negating your beef with "where to measure from." In the case of the "simple" Are they withing 6" of a like model, it is easiest to just tip them over without picking them up, giving you a clear point of "existence" I.E. Where the base touches the board. If you keep this in mind while laying down your models it is a simple procedure to keep the majority of your dead in 6" of a like model, and measuring is not too hard.

@Lordhat, you said,

"BTW Hellfury, as the measurement for WBB status is now USUALLY measured at the time of "death" (most notably for resorb status) it's safe to assume you can measure BEFORE you lie the models down, partially negating your beef with "where to measure from"

What do you mean, usually measured at the time of death? My codex states that WBB rolls are taken at the start of the turn, so why wouldn't you just measure at the beginning of the turn for eligible WBB rolls?

The beef about how to tell where exactly a model is, should be taken care of at the start of the game. IE, edge of the base or center of the model.

The rules seem very easy in practice. You take causaulties, you lay them down. At the start of your turn, you measure to see if they are eligible for WBB. If they are, you roll, if they are not, you take them off.

Posted By Lordhat on 01/28/2007 2:00 PM
I'd like to point out for clarification, that since the teleport finction of the Monolith can happen either before OR after the Monolith's move, the 18" range should NOT be measured until the actual Telport attempt occurs, NOT when you decide you may want to use the 'Lith to re-roll W.B.B.'s.

Very true. Good clarification.

Posted By Lordhat on 01/28/2007 2:00 PM
Also note that in the original example stated, none of the downed unit may use the Portal on the 'Lith; As they are all dead, there simply is NO unit there to be teleported!

Also very true, even though the monoliths presence wasnt implied.

Posted By Lordhat on 01/28/2007 2:00 PM
P.S. Edit:

BTW Hellfury, as the measurement for WBB status is now USUALLY measured at the time of "death" (most notably for resorb status) it's safe to assume you can measure BEFORE you lie the models down, partially negating your beef with "where to measure from."

But thats not what the codex says. I know the FAQ gave a ruling as...



...but it makes little sense, except in the hands of newbs. It doesnt take into account the mobility of the orb. ( the lord may consolidate or some other movement related to the enemies assault phase)

The reason being is that the lord with the orb could move away from range for the downed models, thus giving the necron player a distinct advantage in saying that the downed necrons in that part I measured from before the necron lord moved are eligible, then the downed necronss that are in range AFTER the lord moves are eligible as well. It simply doesnt work like that. It could also be very easily considered spurious for a necron player to try that as well.

For ease of play, I can see the FAQ ruling being useful for most circumstances, but it truly doesnt completly clarify how it should be handled.

As white dragon said, you do all these things at the beginning of the turn, with the exception of the monolith should you decide to move it before using the portal.

As for exact measuring for WBB casualities, thats not covered in the codex and is easily dealt with before the game starts as to how to rectify that matter. I tried the "tipping" of the model back to its original position and works most of the time, unless the model rolls around, then it becomes sticky. hence why i just use blank bases. Keeps my models from being scratched as well. But thats all really just personal preference.
If you adhere strongly to the NECRON FAQ then measuring is a moot point for tipped models.

Posted By Hellfury on 01/29/2007 9:56 AM

If you adhere strongly to the NECRON FAQ then measuring is a moot point for tipped models.

Well that's the kicker, aint it? Do you get to chose which clarifications you use from an FAQ? If you use one part you should use all of it. Granted this current FAQ just makes Necrons even more powerful, as they can no longer be forced to fall back "off" of potential W.B.B.'s. Which printing of the codex do you have? If it's the first printing, you'll have to pull out the faq to prove that a stikkbomb doesn't work against your lith, and then it's downhill from there.  I don't think the timing of Res orb measurement is that important, either the model is in range, or it's not. WHEN you measure this is fairly arbitrary; If anything the FAQ limits the res orb, by NOT allowing the Lord to make possible consolidation moves towards the units you'd most like to be in range at the time of measurement.

Also the FAQ helps when units with already downed necrons get assaulted, as the models aren't actually "on the table", but are just there as reminders of locations and numbers of WBB rolls. Since they are ignored for any other game purpose, models can assult over them, and end on them ( a very precarious position, to say the least); it's easiest to move the downed necrons out of the way (granted not too far).

All in all, I'm not saying to STOP using your blank bases, as they alleviate a lot of problems for you. What I AM saying is that consider VERY carefully how you use the FAQ, Cherry picking through the rulings is generally not smiled upon.

Wow, that's the first time I have ever heard or seen the concept that the entire Necron unit has to be within the 6in range of the Res Orb for all the models to gain the Res Orb ability. RAW, it says that all units with a model within 6in of the Orb get the Orb ability. I always took it (and so did my gaming group), that if you have 1 Necron Warrior within 6in of the Orb, then the entire unit gets the Orb bonus.

Not doing that seems to make the Phalanx of death an impossibility. What would be the point of a large squad if you can't get them all within 6 in?

Just something I've never thought of, and honestly never discussed.

-Jmz

Well, it says to asses if the casualties are in range at the time. To asses res orb range we look at the res orb rule.

Codex Necrons, pg 15:

"....All Necron units with a model within 6" (including the Lord himself)...."

Speaking of which..... The Res Orb Rule refers to units, not models.....

Situtation: (assuming another like squad within 6", and a resorb within 6" )

10 warriors take 10 casualties from 2 different sets of hits, 3 by bolter and 2 by lascannon from the first set, and  3 by bolter and 2 by lascannon from the second set.

RAW by the codex only: the the 6 bolter casualties may take WBB rolls as normal, but the 4 lascannon casualties MAY NOT, BECAUSE THERE IS NO UNIT!

RAW using the FAQ: the 3 bolter casualties from the first set  may take WBB rolls as normal, and so may the 2 lascannon casualties from the first set as they are checked for at the time of the casualty. The 3 from bolters from the second set  may take WBB rolls as normal, but the 2 lascannon casualties from the second set MAY NOT, BECAUSE THERE IS NO UNIT!

This is much like the way the Portal is worded. I am sure this was not the intent, but the only way to fix the RAW would be so convoluted that G.W.'s Target audience would have to actually go to school for a few more years (and actually pay attention) to comprehend the english.

The FAQ at least gives you the 2 extra models in this case.