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I was browsing through the Dark Angels codex and noticed the Deathwing Apothecary conversion on page 65.  Now, I'm not against the idea of Apothecaries in Terminator Armor, in fact I've done a conversion of my own.  But something bothered me about the model.  It bugged me for a while until I realized that it was that the Narthecium/Reductor was mounted on the Power Fist.  Now, I may be alone in this but does it strike anyone else as odd that a medical gadget would be mounted on an anti-tank close-combat weapon?

Considering that some of you have thought about this at one time or another, what would be the best way to field a Terminator Apothecary in a regular Space Marine army?

1.  Just as it is in the Dark Angel's Codex.  Put the Narthecium/Reductor on the hand with the Stormbolter if you feel that strongly about it.

2.  Have the Narthecium/Reductor replace the Power Fist for free.  After all, letting a Terminator ignore a failed armor save is pretty tough on your opponent and the Apothecary really shouldn't be able to do that and rip the armor off a Leman Russ at the same time.

3.  Stick with the current rules - i.e., don't allow Apothecaries to wear Terminator Armor or Terminator Command Squads to take an Apothecary upgrade.  I mean, if something's powerful enough to pop Terminator armor there wouldn't be much for the Apothecary to do except to say, "He's dead, Jim."

4.  Something else entirely.  I expect that some of you went in a different direction than what I am thinking, which probably wouldn't be that difficult.

My personal bias is with the second choice (coincidently that's the way I did my own conversion).  Personally I feel that the loss of the Power Fist and the close combat utility it provides is more than balanced out with the added survivability the Narthecium/Reductor provides to the unit as a whole.  Allowing a free swap would also keep the point cost of the unit down and makes the Apothecary a more attractive option without being "broken".  Anyone here have any opinions on this?  Am I close to the mark or completely out to lunch without any napkins?  Those of you who've done this, what option did you go with and what was your reasoning?

It would depend on the rules listed in the DA dex. If it said that the narthecium/Reductor replaced some gear then I'd model it that way, and if it just said that it was in addition to said gear then I'd probably mount it on the stormbolter arm and put the stormbolter on his shoulder with some fancy targetting stuff. Or go all out and model a servo arm with the medical bits on the end and maybe toss one of those new servo skulls in the mix for good measure.

Replace the storm bolter or powerfist.

Why replace either? The neither the Narthecium nor the Reductor are a weapon (one handed nor two) and as such can be modeled dangling from the belt, a bunch of first aid packs or some Adeptus Mechanicus med-harness gizmo. It's not like it's any less "realistic" that a power armored marine will have the same delicate medical equipment, including very fragile injection needles poking a foot or more out, straped to his heavily armored forearm in a combat environ. Having Narthecium/Reductor on a powerfist (which, according to fluff, gets it's "power" from being part exo-skeletal but mostly from the energy field that courses over it) isn't that much of a stretch, is it?

Here is what I did with mine last year.

www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/view/topic/forumid/8/postid/71105/Default.aspx

Oooh, very nice conversion HF. That works too.

That's almost exactly what I was thinking Hellfury, if that is your real name.

I'd like to point out my comments to Hellfury's conversion.

Maybe the apothecary needs the power fist to bust through the terminator armor to get at the injured marine inside?

I say none of the above.  You should use an old style chainfist instead.  After all the apothocary's sole reason for existance (fluffwise anyway) is to get that gene seed in a hurry.  What faster way to open up a marine's chest is there than a chain fist?

if you think about it, the regular reductor looks quite alot like a power armor scaled chainfist anyway, so just upgrade to professional grade and get to chopping.  I say the old style one btw, because I do not like the newer style long blade. Chainfists should be short to use the powerfist's power field.

Power fist to bust through Terminator armor? Open up a Marine's chest with a chainfist? You guys realize that you're describing using a chainsaw to open a can of soup, right? I'd hate to see the condition of the geneseed after that chainfist is powered down. And what happened to the fluff about Terminator armor being ancient and revered? Man, this has all the markings of a Monty Python skit.

Breotan, that was great! I can actually see that skit...

regarding the original question, if you follow WYSIWYG, you need to leave the storm bolter and the power fist on, because they do not get replaced or removed. I suppose you could voluntarily just not use them, and get away with it, though.

How about a power Narthecium? A giant syringe, using the Fabius Bile model?

Posted By Breotan on 02/21/2007 7:14 PM
Power fist to bust through Terminator armor? Open up a Marine's chest with a chainfist? You guys realize that you're describing using a chainsaw to open a can of soup, right? I'd hate to see the condition of the geneseed after that chainfist is powered down. And what happened to the fluff about Terminator armor being ancient and revered? Man, this has all the markings of a Monty Python skit.

But if the marine is already dead, all the Apothecary is doing is getting at that sweet sweet geneseed, who cares if it's akin to taking a chainsaw at the can of soup so long as he gets the two "golden nuggets" (geneseed) inside? Alternately, all the hardware could be enclosed in some armored casing and we're just seeing an "action" shot with all the gizmos extended ready for use while most of the time it's tucked away, kinda like how 99% of GW's "Spase Mahrunez" ^(TM) don't actually walk around mouths agape screaming and waving their arms above their head just like they don't care (unless they are at their annual Emporer's Birthday disco bash). Tehehe.

Posted By Antonin on 02/22/2007 7:58 AM

How about a power Narthecium? A giant syringe, using the Fabius Bile model?

I added that to the apothecary that I made, but as I just moved and the models are packed up, pics of that will have to wait.

I mounted them to the back of the termie. Because of the larger proportions of the termie, they fit quite well.

Imagine taking it one step further and using the new tech marine as a template for arm/narthecium/ reductor place ment. Now that would look like a true field medic ready to give the "emperors peace".

Posted By Breotan on 02/21/2007 7:14 PM
Power fist to bust through Terminator armor? Open up a Marine's chest with a chainfist? You guys realize that you're describing using a chainsaw to open a can of soup, right? I'd hate to see the condition of the geneseed after that chainfist is powered down. And what happened to the fluff about Terminator armor being ancient and revered? Man, this has all the markings of a Monty Python skit.

well, first of all Marines have a pretty tough chest cavity, with layers of black carapace followed by fused ribcages, but worrying about the squishy insides can be fluffed away by stating that the chainfist is preset to certain depths, and that the AI of the marine's helmet guides the placement of his blade.

And Terminator armor is ancient and revered, but not as much as the geneseed... sometimes you have to make hard choices.

Posted By Antonin on 02/22/2007 7:58 AM

regarding the original question, if you follow WYSIWYG, you need to leave the storm bolter and the power fist on, because they do not get replaced or removed. I suppose you could voluntarily just not use them, and get away with it, though.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Dark Angles Terminator Apothecary?  Yes, in that instance the codex follows the first option I proposed (you'd almost think I did that intentionally ).  The main purpose of this thread is to get input on how to incorporate Terminator Apothecaries into non-Dark Angles chapters.

why exactly?

he is in terminator armor he has those 2 weapons standard and he can use them in combat. just because he is a medic doesn't mean he cannot fight. the reductor etc.. are pieces of gear in additon to what he normally has and you have to pay extra to have them. its like trying to tell a marine player his upgraded marine can't use the iron halo he is wearing at all  because he spent the points to give him melta bombs.

Mughi - right, what I was saying is that if you, in modeling, remove the power fist and replace it with a narthecium & reductor, you shouldn't later use the power fist. The N & R is added, but some people were mentioning that you shoudl replace the storm bolter and power fist with the N&R - if you do, you shouldn't later surprise someone with them - aha! I have a powerfist!

Breotan - I see what you're saying. i was talking about apothecaries in DA, but there is the possibility of Terminator Apothecary veteran sargents, so I see what you are saying. bucketload of points for what you get, though.

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 02/22/2007 9:31 AM
But if the marine is already dead, all the Apothecary is doing is getting at that sweet sweet geneseed, who cares if it's akin to taking a chainsaw at the can of soup so long as he gets the two "golden nuggets" (geneseed) inside?

Which is exactly why (these being Space Marines) the Apothecary's tools should be located squarely within the culet.

Posted By Hellfury on 02/21/2007 7:20 AM

Here is what I did with mine last year.

www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/view/topic/forumid/8/postid/71105/Default.aspx

I'd like to point out that I'm the one who sold the apothecary bits to Hellfury, so I shold get some credit for that conversion. Fifty percent will do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe sixty percent.

I would replace the lower arm with that from the Apothecary from the Command squad sprue. Its a good clean fit. There are enough chains and drills to act as a powerfist.

If you can find a right hand powerfist use it and add the storm bolter to the right wrist Grey Knight style.

yeah, that what i did in the link above, it works well.