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I know that those of us with quarter's for the way back machine remember 2nd edition with mixed fondness and fear.  One aspect I would like to see resurected is clarity of the types of invulnerable saves.

Would classifying the invulnerable save as:

Hardware: rosarius/refractor field/shield drone

Psychic: daemonic saves/rune armor

Faith: Spirit of the martyr

Dodge: assassins

etc. be too much?

This way things that bypass a save can be kept somewhat logical.  Great example is the vindicare shield breaker round.  Maybe it bypasses hardware and psychic saves, but not dodge saves.  It would only add a paragraph or two to the rule book, and a couple of words to the appropriate codexes.

Too much? No. If anything, it'd remove a lot of the quirks in the rules (like Psycannons ignoring the saves of Turbo-Boosting bikes).

In our rules we have several types of saves:

Armour - Self Explanatory. And it's model by model, none of this majority crap.

Cover - Again, self explanatory. And again, no majority nonsense.

Invulnerable - Cannot be ignored except by things that specifically ignore Invulnerable Saves.

Dodge - Cannot be ignored except by things that specifically ignore Dodge Saves. This one may seem the same as an Invul save, but it means that Turbo-Boosting Bikes, Assassins, and fast moving Swooping Hawks (part of our Codex Eldar) can get a save against things that shouldn't be ignoring their save (Psycannons, Dread Axes, etc.).

Ignore Injury - What Feel No Pain currently is, only with a better name. Can vary between units (ie. all Orks have a 6+ Ignore Injury Save, Feel No Pain - the ability - gives a 4+ Ignore Injury save, Medics give members of their squad a 5+ II save, etc.).

Psychic Save - Generally a save only taken against Psychic Attacks, although sometimes it can have more specific effects (ie. a psychic save vs Siren allows the model to shoot the Siren user, a failed save means they can't, etc.).

It works very well.

And no majorities!

BYE

i like that. I like that alot

make dodge and turbo boost into cover saves, a psycannon and the like would ignore all the psycic/invuln/faith(another word for psychic)

the side effect would be that those 2 are killed more easily to flamers and such, but turbo boosting into the path of a flamer isn't going to help you, and neither is prancing around

Posted By pinkbunny on 03/20/2007 3:01 AM
make dodge and turbo boost into cover saves ... the side effect would be that those 2 are killed more easily to flamers and such, but turbo boosting into the path of a flamer isn't going to help you, and neither is prancing around

No, the side effect is that these models suddenly have no protection close combat. You make Dodge into Cover Saves, and suddenly Assassins jump out of the way of close combat weapons.

No, Dodge needs to be its own category.

BYE

I posted on this a while back. Here is a copy of my post:

The rules fix I would like to see.

Take your armour save (if available) or:

1. Cover Saves. Such as from barrels, walls, etc
- Forfeit against template attacks and all close combat.

2. Shield Saves. such as Iron Halo, shield drones, rune armour etc. Also includes extra heavy armour such as terminators.
- Forfeit against psychic attacks, including psycannon, force weapons, witch blades and psychic powers.

3. Dodge Saves. Such as flip belts, Assassin saves, turbo boost. (Limited to 5+ in all but a few cases).
- Forfeit against blast and template attacks that completely cover the target models base or for large models where the model or base touches the center hole. i.e. Hey Harlie! try to dodge this demolisher shell.

Note, cover saves should be recognised as a form of invulnerable save, and any of the above should void any armour save the target has if taken, so one save should be permissable.
This way each type of 'invulnerable' save has something that can bypass it.

I would take your version Orlanth but I would break up shield saves into shield and psychic saves. This would reflect the fact that certain types of attacks work by different means, so that say a shield save which would reasonably work against a wraithcannon (by having the shot hit the energy field or whatever and be unable to suck the bearer in as well) but not work against someone reaching into your mind to pop your brain. I would also allow dodge saves against blasts and templates, as they tend to be reserved for supernaturally fast beings who are generally pretty fragile anyway.

Yeh i found weird that a shield breaker round or a deamonic glaive can kill a wraith while it's going through stuff, your glaive/bullet can hit a wall, there is a ghost, can you kill it? no but how come you can do that to wraiths?

TheEnd

By the way H.B.M.C, what's up with your work on the improved 40k rules? Any new versions out?

On topic: How can you ignore the majority rule? You mean, you choose who you target and the model then can make armor saves or not (considering AP)?

I like the ignore injury a lot, would give some monsters, especially orks, tyranids and necrons a good quasi inv save.

Greets
Schepp himself