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***  Now brother marines, we take this fight into the heart of the enemy.  Steel your souls against the deinzens of the immaterium as we step now into the maw of the teleporter.  Everyone here? Okay, GROUP HUG ***

At least I am pretty sure that is what they do before they come in.  Similarly I have images of those multicolered sky-divers making patterns during free fall when jump-infantry lands in a pretty pattern.

 

SO I PROPOSE:

Place a single model from the squad, and roll to deviate as normal, repositioning the model.  Place the next model within 1" of an existing model.  All further models must be placed no more than 1" from 2 or more models in the squad.

 

Still a tight grouping, but at least they can be strung out a bit, and not all under the plasma cannon template.

So, make it so there's zero reasons not to Deep Strike? It's a plenty powerful ability anyway; there's no need to "kick it up a notch"...

Why not give DS the boost that Dragonman proposes, at the cost of additional points spent? Increase the price of a Deep Striking unit by, say, 3 points per model or something like that.That way, a relatively small boost (they're still going to get shot up, just not as badly by blast/ordnance as before) will cost them models in the long run - their expensive men will be taking points away from additional models/squads.

CK

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

No need to make anything more expensive because there's no need to change the rule in the 1st palce.

I didn't mean to suggest that such a rule wouldn't make deep striking more valuable, points wise.

As for not being broke, when is the last time anyone deep striked with IG Storm troopers.  It is only 10 points for a full squad, not to expensive, might be a good tactic.  But wait, without a power armor shell, forming up in a death huddle is suicide. 

Sure it works okay for a unit of termies, who can resist 90% of the weapons in game (unless you have my luck and lose 4 of 5 to one squads bolter shots the turn after they land...  not that they would have been saved by being spread out...), even assault squads are okay.  But tight packing light infantry is overly harsh.  'Nid gargoyles scream hit us with a flamer please.  Sure you can drop them far enough back to be safe, but then what is the point of deep striking at all.

 

 

Posted By Flagg07 on 04/01/2007 3:56 AM

Why not give DS the boost that Dragonman proposes, at the cost of additional points spent?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

No need to make anything more expensive because there's no need to change the rule in the 1st palce.

Quoted for truthiness. Its a simple, clean rule.

Ahh, well than, the truthiness of that well thought out and reeasoned argument cannot be denied...

 

Now, how about you address the specific point I raised in which bunching up light infantry (with a 4+, 5+, or even 6+ save) is a much more dramatic detriment to the troops being so graciously hosed.  Sure termie armor has to worry about plasma cannons.  But with a bad deviation result, a 10 man squad of storm troopers could be completely covered by a lowly 6 point flamer, and lose (on average) 4 men.  And emperor forbid they land a bit too close to a heavy flamer and lose 8-10 men (again on average) with no saves.  That is a fair exchange right?  pay 10 points for an ability that makes you completely hoseable by a 10 point weapon...

 

Now, for the sake of argument, because it eventully comes up, I usually play marines, but I own guard, and tau, and i used to own chaos and eldar (until they funded my guard and tau).  I also borrow my firends 'nids from time to time (only fair since he stores them at my place), so i have a bit of experience with everything...  Now on that footing, I am suggesting that maybe just maybe, rewriting the deepstrike rules so that it is as balanced for light infantry as it is for heavy infantry, not from any particular bias, but trying to make a better game.

 

Considering IG Vets are superior, my best guess would be that it's been quite sometime.


Based on your comments, it seems that you would like your Stormies to be more survivable once they land. If that's the case, I can appreciate that. However, a change to the Stormies would be a better fix for the issue OR don't DS them. Changing DS is not the answer.

As I said before, the rule is not broken. There is no need to change it because a few units are more vulnerable than others. You have to be more careful where and when you DS IG as opposed to Termies. That's made up for in the points difference between the 2 units.

Deep Strike is a huge advantage, whether you use light or heavy infantry. It confers the ability to deploy anywhere on the table and immediately have an effect on the game (by shooting, mainly). In most cases, the infantry in question would have to walk or ride a transport for at least a couple turns to achieve a similar position, and sacrifices shooting capability (and likely members of the unit to enemy fire) in the process. In addition, it preserves the points spent on the unit from early-turn attrition, since the densest fire is during the first and second turns due to the fact that opposing heavy weapons haven't been whittled down yet.

If their clumped vulnerability worries you, DS them away from those units with blast and template weapons, or out of LOS altogether. This weakness is the trade-off you have to take for the advantage you gain. The cake can be in your hand, or in your mouth; it cannot be both (unless you enjoy chewing your own hand).

Ah, well, storm troopers (and i am only using them because i remember their stats) can take deep strike and/or infiltrate for 1 point each.  In any game where they can do one, they can do the other (storm troopers don't have the always can DS rule), so they can choose almost anywhere on the board before the game starts, and fight from turn 1.  Or they can be held in reserve, and DS almost anywhere on the board later, but have to contend with reserve rolls, deviation, and not being able to move there first turn, and in addition, are neatly stacked up to be template targets.

 

No nothing wrong with that at all... 

I know you're being sarcastic, but you're right: there's nothing wrong with it. You can deal with the limitations of Infiltrate, and be on the table 1st turn, or you can deal with the limitations of Deep Strike, and be anywhere on the table, including point-blank for melta shots on tanks, on turn 2 potentially.

If you don't like the rule, don't use it. You don't get to change the rule to give even more advantages to an already-exceedingly-useful ability that you get for dirt cheap.

For IG, you should be Deep Striking 5 man Vet teams anyway. They land (hopefully), they shoot 7 plasma shots @ BS4, they die.

They Deep Strike for free too with the Drop Troops doctrine.

The point people are trying to make is that if you feel Stormtroopers need an improvement, improve Stormtroopers. Don't make a sweeping change to one mechanic that will have a ripple effect on the game.

Quote For Truthiness!!!!