Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello All

I field a very mobile space marine army using scouts, whirlwinds, predators, speeders and dreadnoughts for a mix of mobile anti-tank and troop support.

I use a purpose built assualt marines squads and my command squad for my up close Close Combat.

Basically because the mobile support is half anti-tank and half anti-troop I'm trying to make my CC squads more effective against both vehicles and troops.

My assualt squad is a 10man with vet and a powerfist, then either 2plasma pistols or 1plasma pistol and flamer. This i think works well so no need to fix

In larger battles of 2000pts i field a single Librarian with Terminator armour and Fury of the Ancients. I find this works very well against most things so am happy with this choice

My command squad however.... ...

It always has a master commander with power weapon, plasmapistol and sometimes i give him terminator honours and combat shield. It always has a vet with a powerfist and always one guy with meltagun. The rest i usually make up with boltgun marines and a champion with power weapon

I keep fiddling with the setup of these squads adding different things or making them all vets etc. but want to avoid a 400pts+ command squad. Can anyone give me their thoughts of what they think works well with numbers of marines or weapons.

Your thoughts are most welcome

 

 

I would reccomend a Chaplain rather than a Master, for one thing, if you're going for close combat. His charge bonus, standard special equipment, and fearlessness simply make him the best 'tooled for CC' leader.

My personal favorite weapon combination for the Chaplain is his standard Rosarius and Crozius, Terminator Honors, a Power Fist, and, if you have the points, Artificer Armor. This means he can choose to strike at his Initiative and ignore saves or strike last and crack skulls, or any mix of the two...I find two attacks of each can be nice.

Second, unless you need to save the Elites slot, make it a Veteran Squad to which you attatch him rather than a Command Squad you buy with him. This approach would let you arm the majority of the squad with BP + CCW, the Vet Sarge with a Fist, and then scatter some specialists around. They can take Furious Charge and/or Terminator honors, to boot!

Even better than this would be if you have the slots to Jump-Pack the Chaplain and add a second assault squad. One of the most devastatingly cost-effective Marine assaults in existence is a Greater Chaplain leading an Assault Squad (with Furious Charge!) into battle.

Hope this helps!

-Adso

Yes thanks for that, 1 have 16 assualt marines in my army and either field them in two squads of 8, or 1 squad of 10 with a Chaplain.

Reason for this is because I try to use all of my HQ choices and i find that if i have less than 10 assualt marines with the Chaplain then they usually end up under strength when they reach the enemy.

Cheers for advice, I will try using the Chaplain in my command squad instead of the commander. But would like to keep the commander somewhere as I find the LD10 is very handy. as most of my troops have a vet it doesn't always cause problems if he is killed.

Posted By BrotherAdso on 04/04/2007 6:41 AM
I would reccomend a Chaplain rather than a Master, for one thing, if you're going for close combat. His charge bonus, standard special equipment, and fearlessness simply make him the best 'tooled for CC' leader.

My personal favorite weapon combination for the Chaplain is his standard Rosarius and Crozius, Terminator Honors, a Power Fist, and, if you have the points, Artificer Armor. This means he can choose to strike at his Initiative and ignore saves or strike last and crack skulls, or any mix of the two...I find two attacks of each can be nice.


Even better than this would be if you have the slots to Jump-Pack the Chaplain and add a second assault squad. One of the most devastatingly cost-effective Marine assaults in existence is a Greater Chaplain leading an Assault Squad (with Furious Charge!) into battle.

Hope this helps!

-Adso

I stick the Adamantine Mantle on him instead of Artificer. That way, if I need him to take out a dreadnought, he will probably survive to do so.

 

People always make the "did he make up his points" arguement, but sometimes the value can't be made up by what he contributes overall. I had an opponent drop 3 dreads right in front of me...the Chappy took out 2 while Meltas took out the third. Had I not had the Chappy, the dreads would have eaten me up. Are 2 dreads the cost of a chaplain and tooled up assault squad? No...but in the end, he saved me a ton of points being scored by my opponent.

Posted By BrotherAdso on 04/04/2007 6:41 AM
 This means he can choose to strike at his Initiative and ignore saves or strike last and crack skulls, or any mix of the two...I find two attacks of each can be nice.

This is illegal.  You must choose one CC weapon to use throughout an entire combat round, you may not mix-and-match attacks.

Furthermore, I would disagree with the described loadouts.  I would always rather have a command squad than a veteran squad, and I wouldn't give the chappy a powerfist.  I'd go with a bog-standard basic reclusiarch with a bolt pistol and frags, with a jumppack if you're going to attach him to an assualt squad.  Don't give him a fist, that's a lot of points that can easily leave him with nothing to swing at.

If you're looking at a command squad, an 87 pt chappy is a very cost-effective leader.  Give a vet sgt a power fist of the heavy attacks, and if you still want more power attacks then get a company champion.  A command squad also allows you to have two special weapons, does not force you to purchase a veteran skill if you don't want to, and if you do it allows the HQ to get it as well.  Veteran squads are just not worth it compared to a command squad.

If I was making a vanilla CC command squad, it'd be chappy w/bp, frags, 8x marines, 2 w/meltaguns or flamers, 5 w/bp and CCW, a vet w/fist, mounted in a rhino or pod.  It's cheap and effective.  If you have the spare points, you could add honors to the chappy, or upgrade some of the bp/ccw marines to an apoth or champ (leave the standard bearer at home).

Huh, I'll be damned. Could you do that (Split attacks between your CCW) in 3.5/3rd? I've been playing since the mid 90s, so I get rules editions mixed up sometimes. Either way, I agree that the Fist + Crozius is expensive, but sometimes having a WS5 fist with more attacks than a vet sarge with a WS4 fist can give you the edge you need vs characters and monsters. With both in a unit, you can also count on them to lay the smack down on vehicles.

I agree with most of your points about the Veteran squad -- the main reason I like Vets is their access to cheep-o special close combat upgrades.

And yeah, your vanilla cheap combat command squad is just about on the money. My only problem is that, in my experience, Rhinos carrying something that threatening tend to go boom...but to each their own.

-Adso