Military?

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**Kelthar the Unveiled**

Hey all, I've recently looked into joining the Marines.

Has anyone else enlisted? Or is anyone a veteran?

Just wondering..

**Delephont**

Do you mean Space Marines....cause I hear that hurts when they stick the probes in!

If you mean the US Marines then good luck. I would like to know what the driving force is behind your decision to join though? Seriously! Is is the thought of being in a theatre of combat? or the defence of your country? or to simply test yourself and see if you have what it takes? In my opinion all are valid reasons for doing what you intend to do, but remember there is always a flip side to the coin...

.....Theres the "anti glory" when you have to actually take a human life, theres the watching of someone taking the life of a friend or close associate! theres the possiblity of leaving behind your family and dying on some wasteland of a battle-field for a war that is questionable. Theres the return to your own country when the war is done and being seen as a burden, especially if you are crippled or mentally traumatised ( see Vietnam ).......

Whatever your reasons or your decision, if you do it for yourself then you can't go wrong, and when your time is finished you could make some serious SERIOUS money as a PMC ( Private Military Contractor ) for firms like Black Water etc......

**mughi3**

speaking with some experience as my father was in both the army and the navy and my gaming group is located in the midst of several military bases i game with no less than 10 regular players who are active duty service members from the airforce, army and marines. as well as several others who have finished thier service and/or retired

it's a personal decision you should weigh carefully. you are making a voluntary committment and also becoming part of something bigger than yourself.

go into it with your eyes open knowing that your service will take you places far from home, move you around alot and make certain aspects of civilian life difficult(like raising a family if you choose to do so) .

there are upsides of course. it can be a career, you get to travel alot, it can give you college money, it can train you in various skills, it give you work related bonus's if you wish to aquire federal related jobs at the end of your service.

know also your job is primarily quite simple- to blow stuff up and kill people in defence of the USA. and the marines are one of the harder branches of the services to qualify for with a strong identity and history. one of my good friend choose it as his career choice because it was the hardest and he wanted to test himself.

in the end the final decision up to you. just remember whatever the recruiter offers you get it documented in writing

**syr8766**

I guess it would depend on why you want to join? A sense of service/duty/obligation? GI Bill/help pay for school etc.? Family tradition? Adrenaline junkie? Want to see the world (and blow it up)?

There are quite a few vets/reservists/active duty people in uniform on this board, some with positive experiences, some bad, but as was said, it's a personal decision, one that runs great risk (physical harm, destruction of family life, death) and reward (see above), one that cannot be made for you nor should be taken lightly.

Good luck!

**ptlangley**

I recently left active duty in the navy, a lot different than the marines but I am sure many of the mundane aspects are pretty much the same. I volunteered mainly because it seemed like an adventurous job and I had a sense of obligation to serve my country. There were too many good things and bad things and some really bad things to mention. Overall I wouldn't have done anything different but looking back at what I was thinking when I was in your position I would pass along this advice:
1) Do not trust anything the recruiter tells you, they will tell you anything or promise you anything to get you to sign. I doubt they will put anything in writing and even if they do it doesn't mean anything unless it is signed by the president itself, and then all you really have is a presidential autograph.
2) There are a ton of good jobs and bad jobs the good news is that you will not be in a bad job forever and the bad news is you will not be in a good job forever expect to change jobs and where you live at least every 2-3 years not including deployments.
3) If you have the opportunity definitely take advantage of the GI Bill, that being said the GI Bill alone is no reason to sign up. it pays about $1000 a month while you are a full time student. Enough to live on but it won't cover all the tuition and fees in most colleges and universities... not even close. Not to mention that you are going to have to serve at least 2-3 years to qualify for it and probably at least 5 years before you can separate to be a full time student. If you decide to take advantage you are going to have to choose to scale back a lot while you go back to school, you might as well suck it up now, live like a pauper while you are probably still use to it.
4) You are pretty smart to be asking these questions, keep asking, talk to as many people who have military experience as possible. Once you are in they own you... they will take care of you but in the end they own you.

**Delephont**

Posted By ptlangley on 04/10/2007 8:35 AM

Once you are in they own you... they will take care of you but in the end they own you.

See, that right there is wy I never signed up for the Royal Navy. I wanted to be an Artificer, but the thought of an organisation having the rights on my skin as well as having to spend six ( 6 ) months on a Sub really ended that career path!

Funnily enough I went to the recruiting office for the Royal Air Force a few years later enquiring about becoming a Helicopter pilot, and the guy was polite and asked what qualifications I had, so I explained I'd just completed a BEng Hons Degree 2:1 in Mechanical and Electrical Engineering, he looked at me a little confused, and asked "yeah but how many A levels do you have?" I never took the A Level path, but I thought he was joking and said, "yeah but a Degree is higher than an A level", again he looked at me kinda blank and asked "yeah but how many A levels do you have"?.......

I backed out of the recruiters office quick smart and haven't looked back.....the word idiots spring to mind!

**Flagg07**

My advice to you is to think about what you'd be interested in doing after your service is complete. Knowing that will help you make an informed decision about what job (MOS) you want to do.

Going to the Recruiter's office knowing what you want to do will keep his BS down to a minimum. There are certain things he can give you. They must all be in the contract. As was mentioned, Recruiters will promise you the world. If it's not in the contract, it was BS.

1) Signing bonus based on what jobs they need filled. Up to $15K I think
2) GI Bill- Money for SCHOOL- This includes trade schools too. I just used mine to pay my way through a Police Academy. Besides tuition, it also covers 2+ years of on the job training. I can't give you a monthly breakdown, but it comes out to $18K+ over 2 1/2 years.
3) College loan repayment. Got student loans? They'll pay them off, up to a certain amount.
4) If you've got a degree, you'll skip 3 ranks and start as a Specialist. I personally never agreed with this, but it's a possible advantage for you.
5) Choice of job OR choice of Duty Station. Careful what you wish for. Germany is a great place to be stationed. They also make regular business trips to places like Iraq. Wanna jump out of perfectly good airplanes? 82nd out of Ft. Bragg will give you that chance on a regualr basis. Between regular trips to Afghanistan, Iraq and a boat load of other less known places. Like I said, careful what you wish for.
6) Bonus $$ for signing a friend
7) They even had a deal where buddies could join together in the same job and garauntee 1st assignment together.

It all comes down to you though.

**StarGate**

Im a vetern of the navy 10 years in i was in the the first gulf war . One word of advice recuiters lies dont beleive them one bit and join the navy too see the world and you can take your warhammer army with you. and play on borad the ship as i did..

**Grot 6**

I'm in the military. This job is just like any other, it has its good days and bad. Your rewards will outweigh the negative if you go at it 100% and have a goal for the service. If you go into the recruters office with the dumb look on your face, rest assure that you will end up leaving the office and signing up for a job that you didn't pick. They don't know you after you sign the botom line, nore do they care. You need to be serious in your ddecision of occupational specialty, and if you are serious, you can come out of it with alot of cash, a good education, opportunities for civilian jobs and education, and growing up and becoming much more then you would have expected, and sometimes ever dreamed possible.

If I was going to give someone advice as to if to join or not, I'd tell them go to school and be an officer, or to go get an MOS that transfers over to a good civilian job, or gives you the highest amount of education for the time you invest in it.

If you look at the military as an investment, and you do your best to use every opportunity available you won't have the time or the efforts to waste.

Its a tough life, but the rewards for me outweigh the negatives.

**Kelthar the Unveiled**

Thanks for all the information so far...

I wanted to join the military for 2 reasons:

I want to test myself (seeing as the Marines are the hardest, I'm going to work my butt off)

I need money for education

Although I thought I would end up somewhere else, I know the direction I'm going in now. After the military service is over, I want to go into Law Enforcement (the po-po). And i've know that i'll be able to go far in that career with a military background.

Anybody else do this? Any more advice people have?

Edit: yes the US marines

**jimbo1062**

Hi,

Congrats, nothing like serving your country.

I am retired US Navy spent 16 years on subs running the nuclear reactor. Great education and some fun times. Also a lot of time underwater picking lint from my belly button. Oh well all part of the job.

Some very good advice here. Know why you are enlisting and what you want out of the deal. If it aint in writing with the recruiter ( IN the contract) it aint worth spit. Even then needs of the service can change that.

One final note if you want the hardest and toughest Navy Seals are the way to go in the US Military.

What ever you decide good luck.

**MR.B**

I did 3 years in the Army nothing great got sent to Kosovo for a tour.

Well I dont regret my time in the Service, I get great healthcare, and education benifits.

Regardless what you do in the Service now adays you have a good chance of going to the Iraq.

We all know the stuff thats going on over there. If your doing it for the GI Bill skip out on service time and get some college loans. Everyone owns $ for school in some way or another.

Its no joke man, military life is tough. Im not going to get political on here for the sake of others.

If your looking to travel and thats really why you want to join the MIlitary,there is the "Merchant Marines" allot of people dont know that they are still around and apart of the U.S. Dept of Transportation. Free training and a Military like enviorment, and no enlistment requirments, So if you say well Ive had enough of this, you can pretty much leave.

If you really want to enlist I'd say Navy, they have tons of job that you can really do on the outside. I was in an Anti-Aircraft job in the Army, I havent seen any of those jobs open in town. The Navy is the way to go if you sign up. I feel if I had to do it again, Id of went into the Navy.

If your looking to do something for your Country you could go the Civil Service route. After I got out I got a job at the VA still working for the man, exept I go home at the end of the day instead of to a bunk.

Regardless what ever you do, good luck.

Check out the Merchant Marines site.

http://www.seafarers.org/

-MR.B

**mughi3**

Regardless what you do in the Service now adays you have a good chance of going to the Iraq.

it's part of why i mentioned what i did in my first post-go in fully away of what your volunteering for.

not much pisses me off more than to see somebody who joined up to gain all the afore mentioned benifits and then doesn't want to do the job they volunteered for.

one of my friend is an NCO (former bradly commander) and he volunteered to go back for his 3rd tour in iraq for a variety of reason but he also mentioned he could always use the extra pay.

**Kelthar the Unveiled**

well, we had our college night for our high school, which was a good experience for me. I did talk to the marine representative there, but my interest was taken elsewhere with all of the colleges.

Marines is still on the list, but I am looking more into teaching, and coaching gymnastics, with a little music on the side

Thanks for all your perspectives and for sharing your experiences, and for helping me keep my options open.

Thank you all

**beef**

Teaching music and gymnastic is a bit of a turn around from law inforcment? I think you need to really sit down and think long and hard about this.

**Polonius**

Well, a more general bit of advice is that most people dont' really know what they want to do with their lives at 17 years old. Further, most people switch careers at some point in their life.

I have friends in the military, and friends who went to college, and what I've decided is that if you at all want to go to college, go right after high school. Nothing is better than your freshman year at college. You can always enlist if you drop/fail out, but it's wierder moving into a dorm room at 21 years old.

Also, I know many of the Branches of the US military now offer 13 month enlistments, which are great for people leaving college.

**Warrior 50**

I am a veteran of the US Air Force, was a Medic and Critical Care Tech.

I enlisted during the Vietnam war and did see some duty in Southeast asia. The Military will teach self reliance and open door to all kinds of opportunities in the service and after with the right training.

The US Marines are a hardy buch of troops, several of my Boy Scouts chose that route after high school and did well in the service. Some went to college on the military's dime and others got into secondary fields that they had an interest in.

Yes there is always a risk of combat, but the military is what you make of it. I got 45 months of education after my service which allowed me to earn a Master's Degree.

Good luck.

Warrior 50

**Mosg**

First off, I'm active duty Navy with 7 years in now. No, the Navy isn't exactly like the Marines, but everything I have to say right now goes across the board for all services.

1. College money. Right now, all of the services offer to pay for any college you do while you're active duty. This isn't the Montgomery GI Bill--It's called Tuition Assistance. For the Navy, they'll pay for up to 4 classes per year, not to exceed some horribly high cost per credit hour (You could go to Harvard and the TA would cover your 4 classes). The Army doesn't care--They'll pay 100% of any class you take while active duty. I believe that the Marines and the Air Force are going in this direction--The Navy is also.

You also get your GI Bill by tossing in 100 bucks a month for the first year. You can get up to 35k for the GI Bill now (Congress did some fiddling with it a few years ago). The kicker is, while you're in, you can have TA pay for your college AND still claim your GI money. The only downside is that once you start receiving money from your GI Bill, you have only 7 years to use it before it disappears. You can however bank the extra (The money is direct deposited into your bank account).

There are more than a hundred different colleges that have worked out a deal with the military to help people get their degrees online. Everything you do for the military they'll try and convert into credit hours to save you time. When I started my bachelor's degree, I had over 90 credit hours converted from my military training. That left 15-18 actual classes that I had to attend to get my degree.

2. The life. My friend loves to tell a story about how bad life is in the armed forces: He calls his mom once a week to talk. Well, he had a real bad week a year or two ago, and so while he was on the phone he just kept going on about how gakky some of the things are that he has to deal with. After 20 minutes he slowed down and she says, "Well, *you* joined the military." She then spent 20 minutes *female dog*ing about how bad she has at her current job. Difference? He makes twice what she does and doesn't have to worry about getting fired.

Every job sucks. I'd bet that less than 1% of people have a job that they'd actually go to if they didn't payed. This is something you're just going to have to come to grips with. Are you going to *female dog* about things in the Marines? Yep. There's going to be a load of crap that you're going to have to do and all the while think to yourself "This is such a waste of time. I can't believe that I have to do this." Unfortunately, *every* job is like that. You just get more job security with the military.

**baffomet**

Posted By Mosg on 04/13/2007 8:14 AM
First off, I'm active duty Navy with 7 years in now. No, the Navy isn't exactly like the Marines, but everything I have to say right now goes across the board for all services.

1. College money. Right now, all of the services offer to pay for any college you do while you're active duty. This isn't the Montgomery GI Bill--It's called Tuition Assistance. For the Navy, they'll pay for up to 4 classes per year, not to exceed some horribly high cost per credit hour (You could go to Harvard and the TA would cover your 4 classes). The Army doesn't care--They'll pay 100% of any class you take while active duty. I believe that the Marines and the Air Force are going in this direction--The Navy is also.

You also get your GI Bill by tossing in 100 bucks a month for the first year. You can get up to 35k for the GI Bill now (Congress did some fiddling with it a few years ago). The kicker is, while you're in, you can have TA pay for your college AND still claim your GI money. The only downside is that once you start receiving money from your GI Bill, you have only 7 years to use it before it disappears. You can however bank the extra (The money is direct deposited into your bank account).

There are more than a hundred different colleges that have worked out a deal with the military to help people get their degrees online. Everything you do for the military they'll try and convert into credit hours to save you time. When I started my bachelor's degree, I had over 90 credit hours converted from my military training. That left 15-18 actual classes that I had to attend to get my degree.

2. The life. My friend loves to tell a story about how bad life is in the armed forces: He calls his mom once a week to talk. Well, he had a real bad week a year or two ago, and so while he was on the phone he just kept going on about how gakky some of the things are that he has to deal with. After 20 minutes he slowed down and she says, "Well, *you* joined the military." She then spent 20 minutes *female dog*ing about how bad she has at her current job. Difference? He makes twice what she does and doesn't have to worry about getting fired.

Every job sucks. I'd bet that less than 1% of people have a job that they'd actually go to if they didn't payed. This is something you're just going to have to come to grips with. Are you going to *female dog* about things in the Marines? Yep. There's going to be a load of crap that you're going to have to do and all the while think to yourself "This is such a waste of time. I can't believe that I have to do this." Unfortunately, *every* job is like that. You just get more job security with the military.

Since the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy, I would think that most of what the Navy does applies to them as well (in terms of policies). Being a Navy veteran (6 year enlistment) I would have to disagree with some of the points made in the previous post.

1. College Money - The part I disagree is that while Tuition Assistance is a nice benefit, but more then likely you probably won't be able to utilize this. Being on a ship (DDG-51 class), we were constantly going out to sea so going to class was impossible. If you get a job which requires you being gone a lot, TA is meaningless. Most Marines are being deployed overseas and last time I checked, there's not many universities in Iraq for service members to go to. This is not to say that it's impossible to go to school while in, but highly unlikely considering the branch you are showing interest in.

Also, the military training converted to college credits is only somewhat true. Some colleges allow you to convert military training to college credits; however, the credit that you get is not enough to get credit for classes in your curriculum. Having these random credits is nice in total but not worth much in a specific major. I had over a year and half of electronics schooling (A & C schools), went to several follow-on schools and when I went to transfer my *College Credits* that I converted, I got a whole 2 credits for my Physical Education portion of my curriculum (Electrical Engineering). This was out of 50+ credits that had been converted. Military credits also do not take up any upper division courses (i.e 300 levels and above) that you need.

I do totally agree though that the GI bill is well worth taking. The $100 a month for a year is nothing compared to what you get back. The thing is that if you go to an expensive school, the money you get every month won't cover all of your expenses. So think about what school you plan to go to.

2. Life - No offense Mosg, but if your friend in the military is making twice as much as his mother, then there is something amiss about his mother's occupation. What the military is not known for is their high salaries. It's a shame that the military members out there risking their lives and doing some really hard work don't get paid well. There are, however, thousands of jobs that pay better then the military. Education is key but not necessarily needed for these jobs either. If you are comparing the military to someone working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart then of course the military might be the better choice.

As for job security, yes, the military is more stable then the outside world. Difference? The outside world has more opportunities, freedoms, and options then the military. You are in control of what you want to do and are not owned by the Department of Defense. I find this funny because EVERY military career counselor gives this same speech (so that you reenlist) about how the scary the outside world is and how safe being in the military is (regarding job security). Maybe in some developing country this might hold true, but in the US, I don't think this is true for the majority of the population. It's funny how these counselors try to keep people in the military with this fear tactic. Millions of people are doing quite nicely not being in the military. Sure you might lose your job at the drop of the hat, but you have to remember that you have that same power to leave when you want to should a better position/job/opportunity comes along.

Contrary to Mosg, not every job sucks. All because people don't have jobs they'd go to without paid doesn't mean that every job sucks. People have bills and other things to pay for so not getting paid no matter how much you like the job is silly measurement of happiness. Maybe the statement would be partially valid if you are assuming that everyone was rich, but then again, if I was that rich, I'd be thinking of doing a lot more with my life then working. Yes, every job has challenging times/moments, but that doesn't mean that every job sucks. I would think that the measurement should be having *alot* more of the good times then bad times would be more valid.

As with what many of the other board members said earlier, it's a personal choice to join. No one knows your situation better then you. The military has its good and bad points so it's up to you to decide. No matter which way you go, make the most of it. The reason why I made my comments was because in my opinion some of the selling points mentioned earlier were not all rays of sunshine.

**Mosg**

@Baffomet

1. As long as you're in a deployable billet, you qualify for NCPACE courses (Which in and of themselves go up to level 300). They are completely self-paced and accepted at all accredited colleges. Apart from those, *everyone* in the service minus sub-riders has access to the internet. I've got half a dozen friends in Iraq/Afghanistan and another few dozen on surface ships scattered throughout the world and I'm in daily e-mail contact with them. There are hundreds of different campuses around the globe that offer multiple degree plans that can be done entirely online.

Also, there's a program (I forget the name) that the Navy put together where if you do 6 classes at any one college, that college is legally bound to take all credits from any other accredited college or institution. These 6 courses are not even required to be done in the classroom--You can do them online.

I'm a linguist. When my 2 years of schooling was converted I got 90 credit hours, 15 or so of which were upper level courses. I'm sorry you got borked on yours, but what college did you apply to?

2. BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) where I live is equal to my base pay roughly. I alone cleared 58k last year--Don't tell me that that's "poor pay". A lot of it depends on where you're stationed at and getting your whether or not you're income tax free.

Also, my friend's mom is a supervisor at some plant in Arkansas. It's not like she's living in the poor house scraping nickels.

3. Go ahead and name some jobs that are preferable to staying at home and/or going out and having fun. Working *sucks*. Who honestly says to themselves on the way to work, "Man, I'm happy I don't have to stay home, watch porn, and eat pork rinds today."? That's right--Nobody.

You can find some *satisfaction* working, but that doesn't mean working is preferable to not. Time is the only thing in this world that you are never ever going to get more of. You show me a person who'd rather spend that at work than pleasing themselves and I"ll show you a f*cking moron. If they're so happy working, then can come do my job too so I can spend more time with my kids and wife.

**baffomet**

Posted By Mosg on 04/13/2007 3:36 PM
@Baffomet

1. As long as you're in a deployable billet, you qualify for NCPACE courses (Which in and of themselves go up to level 300). They are completely self-paced and accepted at all accredited colleges. Apart from those, *everyone* in the service minus sub-riders has access to the internet. I've got half a dozen friends in Iraq/Afghanistan and another few dozen on surface ships scattered throughout the world and I'm in daily e-mail contact with them. There are hundreds of different campuses around the globe that offer multiple degree plans that can be done entirely online.

Also, there's a program (I forget the name) that the Navy put together where if you do 6 classes at any one college, that college is legally bound to take all credits from any other accredited college or institution. These 6 courses are not even required to be done in the classroom--You can do them online.

I'm a linguist. When my 2 years of schooling was converted I got 90 credit hours, 15 or so of which were upper level courses. I'm sorry you got borked on yours, but what college did you apply to?

2. BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) where I live is equal to my base pay roughly. I alone cleared 58k last year--Don't tell me that that's "poor pay". A lot of it depends on where you're stationed at and getting your whether or not you're income tax free.

Also, my friend's mom is a supervisor at some plant in Arkansas. It's not like she's living in the poor house scraping nickels.

3. Go ahead and name some jobs that are preferable to staying at home and/or going out and having fun. Working *sucks*. Who honestly says to themselves on the way to work, "Man, I'm happy I don't have to stay home, watch porn, and eat pork rinds today."? That's right--Nobody.

You can find some *satisfaction* working, but that doesn't mean working is preferable to not. Time is the only thing in this world that you are never ever going to get more of. You show me a person who'd rather spend that at work than pleasing themselves and I"ll show you a f*cking moron. If they're so happy working, then can come do my job too so I can spend more time with my kids and wife.

Mosg if you were able to make it work for you, fair enough. The linguist rate though, is very small and specialized and I really don't think that it is a representative rate for most of the Navy or even Marines. I had a friend who was a musician (MU) and he was able to get more college credits then a lot of people as well. But like yourself, it's a very specialized area and not the run of the mill rates for the Navy or Marines.

1. NCPACE sounds like a suped up PACE. IIRC PACE is usually run through an actual college. These colleges though, were all Jr. Colleges (i.e no 300 level courses) and not full blown universities. If they are now through regular universities then good for them. As for your question, I attended and completed my EE degree at UC Berkeley in 2005 even though I got 2 credits from my conversion.

2. If your BAH is almost equal to your Base Rate then you're living in an area like San Francisco because almost all the other locations that a person would probably get stationed at would not be nearly as high. Most people who start out in the military won't be as lucky as to live in that type of area. All the major bases have a lot lower BAH rate. With 7 years in the service and I'm assuming an E-6 (since you're going to school) will only net you a whooping $2.5K base salary a month which is ~$30K a year. Again if you're getting that much BAH in your area then yes, $58K is "poor pay". I can tell you first hand that looking at the BAH chart for SF (which is one of the top BAH's around) that even at $62K (BAH rate & Base pay for an E-6) is poor pay for the area considering the average house price out here is over $800K and the average price per a gallon of gas is over $3.50. I think it's even more so "Poor Pay" because you have a wife and kids to take care of. For someone who is going to join right out of high school or what not, they're not going to get BAH (unless they're married already) and will definitely be a lower rank with a lot less years of service. This means, whereever they go, they'll get "Poor pay" as well. That's one of the main reasons why I was saying it's a shame that military people get the shaft for the work that they do. I'm all for service members getting the pay they deserve.

As for your friend's mom's job, I doubt that comparing someone who lives and works in Arkansas to a lot of other states who have higher cost of living is a fair comparison. Just using my example of San Francisco one could see that while the pay may be double, the cost of living for the area pretty much sucks up the difference. Both of which is still pretty low.

3. In your first statement, you said *all* jobs suck. I doubt any absolutes statements like that would be a true. Believe it or not, their are a lot of dedicated people who do want to go to work rather then sit at home. I know several people like that where I work and I'm pretty sure other people on this board and in the civilian world would say they know people like that. That's where I think is the problem with your logic lies in that you're still in the military mindset. Not to say that your service isn't appreciated or that there is anything wrong with being in the military. I say this in reference to your perspective to civilian life.

In anycase, as advice to potential military service members, plan out what you want to gain from your service and stick with it. No matter what, get the most that you can from the military. They're sure as hell going to get the most out of you!

**Mosg**

2. Sure, I got a good job. If you can cut a 70+ on your ASVAB and then pass the DLAB test (Just ask your recruiter) anyone can get in though--Across all services it's, averaged, the most promoted rate due to the fact that it's hard to retain someone who gets handed a TS/SCI clearance and 3/4's of their bachelor's degree

Apart from my rate though, if you do join the Marines you *are* going to spend a crapload of time in Iraq or Afghanistan. The upside is that while there you're getting hazardous duty pay, combat pay, etc plus everything is untaxable AND promotion rates are sky high.

58k a year for a non-college grad who hasn't hit his quarter century mark is pretty good in my book when you factor in full medical and dental for me plus all dependants.

3. I still don't think you're grasping my point. Of course people want to do things. Most people would go out of their mind if they didn't have anything to do. However, if you asked 100 guys if they'd rather go to work plus transit or play X-Box and get payed the same, not many/if any would pick "Go to work."

Jobs suck in that you're trading your time for money--Your time, the most precious commodity you have. Who would volunatarily throw that away?

**Kelthar the Unveiled**

heh sorry, i wasn't very clear with all of you the second time i posted.

Gymnastics came up because I found that i could get money for college through that, seeing as i've been doing gymnastics my whole life, and have been on the varsity team since freshman year. Teaching something at a school, like music or english, hell, even PE or something while being able to coach gymnastics seems like a helluva better time than getting your ass kicked for 13 weeks, then being sent off to Iraq.

No offense to anyone, of course. I would have the stomach for marines, considering my physical condition, but like Mosq said, it's all about what you really want to do.

What I really want to do is teach kids something that will help them the rest of their lives.

Thank you

**mughi3**

What I really want to do is teach kids something that will help them the rest of their lives

drill instructor >

**Mosg**

What I really want to do is teach kids something that will help them the rest of their lives

drill instructor

Or "that guy" that cruises by the high schools around 3:30pm

**whitedragon**

I would tend to agree with Baf on the actual military experience.

As far as trying to do something that helps people, teaching is a very good profession for that.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are alot of roads in life that you can take, and that there are many ways to get to where you want to go, and all of them have valuable things to teach you. (In experiences as well as actually book learnin') The first thing to do is maybe decide where you want to be in 5 years or so, (IE, career, goals, not necessarily where you actually want to live.) and then decide what would be the best path to take to get there. Also, how long do you want to give yourself to get there? That might make your decision easier.

And finally, it takes a big person to admit when they aren't ready for something. For example, I joined the Marines because I needed to grow up a little bit, among other things. The corps taught me alot of valuable things about myself and life in general that I don't think I would have learned elsewhere. After my tour I was much more able to tackle the challenges that life had in store for me, so for me, the military was the right decision.

But thats not to say that its the right decision for everyone. Definetely it sounds like you need to take more time to think this through though.

**Relapse**

One thing you should know that the recruiter doesn't get around to telling you is the fact about the promised job you signed up for is promised only if you qualify for it in the receiving barracks testing. Back in the day when I was going through boot camp in San Diego we had a guy that had a
guaranteed billet for aviation electronics. The only trouble was that his receiving barracks scores weren't worth a fart in a hurricane and it wasn't until we were graduating that he learned he wasn't getting what he was promised when he put his name on the dotted line and swore in.
What he instead got was what the Marines said was the next related billet which was field radio man. Instead of working on jets, he got to hump 25 pounds extra stuff and be one of the first sniper targets. The point is, grill your recruiter about everything and cut down on the surprise factor.
That being said, it'll be a fine education in human nature as well as a good look inside yourself, and I think it should be a requirement for young men to serve their country in some function. I applaud you for looking into signing up.

**whitedragon**

I never did "receiving barracks testing". Is it possible that the poor guy thought he signed up for that and really was "Open Contract"?

**Relapse**

When I went in back in 83, that was what they put us through along with getting our gear issued. The DI's explained it out to the guy when we were receiving our assignments at the end of boot that although it was true he had signed a guaranteed contract, he had not scored high enough on the tests in the receiving barracks to get aviation electronics.
My guess is that after he did his pre enlistment testing, he was told he was the next Einstein and he'd get whatever he wanted. He just didn't get told or spaced the fact he wouldn't be eligible if he duffed the tests he took after enlistment. In all fairness, I was happy he didn't get the school since he was dumber than a box of rocks and would have had trouble getting a paper airplane to fly. I don't honestly know how he made it all the way through boot camp, since my training platoon had a 25% attrition rate and there were far better men than him that got sent home or set back.

**whitedragon**

I was in from 98 - 03. When I took my ASVAB, they then showed me what jobs I was qualified for, and then I signed for one of those jobs. I never took any other tests after the ASVAB. However, if you didn't get a specific MOS assigned when you signed up, you were assigned 099 or 9900 or something like that, basically "Open Contract" which meant that you were going wherever they needed you.

However, I understand that if you score high enough of the ASVAB, even if you go Open Contract, you will not get shunted off to the grunts. They need their smart people in smart jobs, even if you're not smart enough to guarantee it at your enlistment signing!

Manpower and Staffing is alot different then it was 20 years ago. Actually, alot of things about the military are different then they were 20 years ago.