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Is anyone else getting an error message when they try and post a new thread topic?  At the moment I'm using internet explorer on a buddy's computer, but normally, I use safari.  Again, is it my browser being persnickety or are the forums not friendly to mac browsers?  If it's a forum issue, is there any way around it?

cheers

Just run Firefox

As a web developer, Safari has recently supplanted IE 5.5 for Mac as my most hated browser to deal with.

Do you support Opera? *sniff*

Opera doesn't allow me to use the fancy editor, at least as Russ has it currently configured; if I want to start new posts, edit existing posts, or add a reply using something other than the Quick Reply box, I have to launch Firefox.

I was afraid of that Ah well, is firefox a free downloader or is it one of these paid gigs?
cheers

Firefox is free (and open source): Firefox/Mozilla Foundation

I proffess you to be a god!

Lack of Safari support is a definite bummer. especially since it passes some compatibility tests other browsers don't.

Posted By Balance on 04/11/2007 8:38 AM
Lack of Safari support is a definite bummer. especially since it passes some compatibility tests other browsers don't.

Speaking as a web developer...

IE and Firefox are the gold standards.  IE because of sheer gravitational pull from its commonality, Firefox because of its universal availability (and, as a bonus, the two are pretty similar in terms of handling of HTML/DHTML/CSS/JS/etc).  Safari/Opera are divergent enough (and not available ony any relevant platform that you can't just download the (imo) superior Firefox for) that supporting them is a headache that's just not worth the effort in the vast majority of cases.  As a result, any "compatibility test" that it passes that's not echoed in IE/FF is irrelevant.  The de jure conformance to standards is irrelevant when IE/FF is the de facto standard.

What Lowinor said. (Thanks for saving me some typing)

As a professional web developer for 11 years I must challenge the notion that FireFox and IE are 'close enough' on web standards. IE may be  the defacto standard, but getting web standard material to render the same in IE and FireFox are much more difficult to accomplish than say FireFox and Safari or FireFox and Opera. Differing DOM implementations and CSS support are the most visible examples.
It is easier to code to standards and rip out IE incompatibilities than to use web standards and massage them to work with IE.

If the site owner wants to exclude Safari support, that's fine, but saying Firefox is superior to all other browsers is an opinion and from a user standpoint, arrogant. The fact that this BBS runs off a MS-framework probably doesn't make it any easier to support non-MS browsers. I understand that decision, but don't agree with it.

In any event, if a site won't support my browser, I simply won't visit it. The site owner has the final say on implementation, but the user has the final say on visiting.

Take care!

Not entirely true; so far as I know, there are no mobile device versions of Firefox (or IE), which means Opera-incompatibility will hinder my ability to post on, e.g., several different smartphones, my Nintendo DS, and my Nintendo Wii.

I've gotten over it, mostly, as I enjoy Dakka enough to launch a less-convenient browser when I need more than Quick Reply functionality. (Though I still miss Imperial Dakka colors....)

You've probably heard of the 80/20 rule in business.  Well, this is the 95/5 rule.

While I could spend a lot of time trying to support the various browsers that make up 5% of the visitors here: Opera, Safari, Mozilla, Netscape, Camino, Konqueror, Omniweb, etc.  I think Dakka fans are better served if I spend that time brining new content to the site.  (like pages of Adepticon pics)

The real problem with supporting the little guys is that you get it working with one release, then they change their code and stop working in a future release.  Opera was a great example of this.  I was a huge Opera fan until a couple of versions ago, when the darn thing stopped working with just about any website with text input, including my beloved G-mail.  They may have since fixed this, but that's when they lost me.

 

 

 

It's not that they're close enough; it's that they are the standard.

I should point out, though, that the perspective I'm coming from is an applications developer, getting the CSS looking the same across platforms is someone else's job, I get the interactivity working on all browsers, and I assume Russ's point of view is similar. In my experience, just getting stuff to work at any significant level of complexity is easier across IE/FF than IE/Opera/Safari. And, well, Opera and Safari are niche products.



Slavish attention to 'standards' that are divergent from 95% of the actual real-world browsers your work is going to encounter is, in my opinion, quixotic.



Hey, it's my opinion. I work with them all to some degree, I prefer Firefox. IE is the most important target, FF the second, everything else is "if there's time left over", and time is finite.



Eh, if one builds a site with nothing more than the toolbox crap, sure. Once you're getting down to writing code that generates custom HTML/JS, it doesn't matter that much; the more complex you get, the less of the generated HTML is generated by MS code. I mean, you can -- and I have in some of my work, specifically to minimize any excess text generated -- completely override the rendering of the HTML itself, and have every byte of the HTML that gets sent to the browser generated by your own code and not let any MS objects generate any of it.



Of course, the environment is in a constant state of change; if Opera becomes more common, it will become more supported. However, it's not a given that it won't be supplanted in smartphones/wiis/etc by a browser that mimics IE or FF more closely.

I can understand the pros and cons for design to the "standard", but this is the ONLY forum I go to the doesn't support safari. I don't understand why this one can't.

wynnstudio

(See Russ' last comment.) For whatever reason, the fancy text editor used here doesn't play nice with anthing that's not IE or Firefox.

What makes dakka a little unique is that we do have a "fancy pants" editor, that gives you some WYSIWYG features. Many forums do not have such a tool.

It's a pro/con thing, the pro is with the cool editor it is easier to for users less familiar with UBB codes, HTML, etc. to post formated text. The con is that you do loose some compatibility.

The "Quick Reply" box at the bottom of the threads does help a little, as this simple text box should work with all browsers.