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I'm kinda new to this site so forgive me if this thread is out of place here.

I consider myself a verteran of the game though ive only been playing since 99' but i find myself getting annoyed at the younger crowd at my gaming store with poor composition lists. people feilding their armies with land raiders, flying deamons, and the like in low point games. i dont make too much of a fuss about this because i know what my list looked like when i first started. i ive always tried to make a challenging and fun list to play, so i guess my point is; ar there any other vets out there who fell cheapend by these kinds of players. i know that the youg bloods have sent many of the vets in my area looking for more competative games. any one out there feel the same as me?

No.

I actually enjoy the more lighthearted games. The younger less experienced crowd tends to actually "enjoy" the game... Why run a landraider at 1000pts... because its cool! 

The more competitive players tend to use the models as markers to beat you with. If I am not playing in a tourney... I try to make the game as fun as possible.

I like to keep all my head aches at work.

I find that if I go to the open gaming 40K day at my FLGS that often times I come up against teenagers and poorly compositioned armies that I can school with my competitive lists.  I use it as an opportunity to field units that aren't extremely cost effective and try to play a more tactical game.

Yes (in your face ED!)

I would suggest you simply not play against those type of opponents.  If you don't like playing against min/max players thats fine. Find opponents that are more commensurate with your playstyle, scenarios whatever. Live and let die I always say.

Just use tactics (I keed, I keed)

Seriously, the few teenagers who are in our WHFB circle have learned that tooled-up heroes and special characters tend to be nasty point-sinks, especially since the new miscast rules came out.  But it is natural--my (much) younger brother has recently gotten into the hobby and the more special rules, flashy bits, and cool flavor text it has, the more convinced he is that the figure is invulnerable.  They learn quickly.

The problems your running into basically stem from the fact that the force organization chart is not balanced at 1000 points. Since its possible to make a massive variety of armies at 1000 points, it becomes impossible to counter all of them. You see lists with 100 models, and lists with 20, lists that have 5 vehicles and lists that have none. However, this effect is less and less noticeable as the point values increase.

That being said, flying demons and 1 land raider at 1000 hardly quantify as cheesy in my book.

Posted By IntoTheRain on 04/16/2007 10:55 AM

That being said, flying demons and 1 land raider at 1000 hardly quantify as cheesy in my book.

I agree with all that. If you're opponent is enthusiastic and getting into the fluff and wanting to play a fun, cool game, I fail to see why that's disincentive. I like playing against more balanced armies too, but I don't see anything wrong with a squad of Screamers or a Land Raider.

We have a brand new WHFB player (around 13 or 14 years old, I would guess) who wanted to play a thousand-point game, so I wrote up a quick thousand-point orc list. He ended up facing 2 units of boys, some arrer boyz and a small unit of Black Orcs, a chariot, a Big Boss & a lvl 1 shaman.

He put down a unit of 20 saurus warriors and Kroq-Gar.

Totally clueless. Those are the models he had, purchased without thought of utility in the game, but simply because they looked cool. He's new, he doesn't know better. (Actually he's been playing 40K for over a year, so he should have known better...)

So I let him play with his 1000 points, and he quickly learned important lessons about magical defense and static combat resolution. Then we had a talk about the army book and how to use it, and how Army Builder can be his friend. Now he has bought some skinks, and is working on collecting a more balanced army.

I totally understand your frustration with the wannabe, testosterone-poisoned uber-lists some adolescents try to field. Just remind yourself that youth & skill don't stand a chance against old age & treachery.

It's an oppurtunity to teach IMO. A couple of our younger guys started out with so so lists but now when I play them they are very competetive. What I find even worse is when a veteren player won't help new players out with tactics/lists like it's some secret circle. The veteren group I play with are always helpfull to new players starting out and I have noticed since we all have so many miniatures a few of us, myself included donate extras to the newer players.

The kiddos buy the cool models (Land Raider, Blood Thirster) before they even pick up a rulebook or a codex/army book. Ever tried to talk a 12 year old out of buying that Bloodthirster and instead just getting some Core troops? Can't be done.

Posted By fellblade on 04/16/2007 11:29 AM


He put down a unit of 20 saurus warriors and Kroq-Gar.

Totally clueless. Those are the models he had, purchased without thought of utility in the game, but simply because they looked cool.

Er... I thought that was the point.  We are talking expensive toy soldiers here.

whats wrong with taking 3 landraiders in a 1000pt list? It was funny while it lasted

I understand all of this. like i said, i was new once too. i suppose i was just ranting off the top of my head too much. but cheesyness aside, the thing i see most (at least in my circle) is that the players arent learning from their mistakes. they blame the dice and not the composition of their army.  they need to learn accountability, wich is hard to teach younger players i guess

for the record i was mistaken with the winged deamon, it was instead a winged deamon prince in a 1000 point army

Wasnt it a kid in his early teens that took second place at adepticon?

What I really hate are all the competitive jackasses compensating for a lack of self-esteem by raping the rule sets and attempting to make everyone else feel bad about themselves too. Let the kids play. 40K is supposed to be a fun game...not a competition to see who can find the most loopholes in the rules system.

Posted By Headhunter on 04/17/2007 12:35 PM
What I really hate are all the competitive jackasses compensating for a lack of self-esteem by raping the rule sets and attempting to make everyone else feel bad about themselves too. Let the kids play. 40K is supposed to be a fun game...not a competition to see who can find the most loopholes in the rules system.

The very moment GW decided to start using "RAW" as a precedent and stopped releasing FAQs in any sort of timely fashion was the beginning of the "poke holes in the system" abuses...

It takes a severe effort of will for me personally to not try and exploit every loophole in the game out of sheer contempt for GW's total and complete lack of competence, but doing so makes it hard to find opponents and actually enjoy the game, so I have to remind myself to desist...

...hate...GW...so...much...

KrAyGgEr, I was thinking the same thing.

In a perfect world everyone would have a second army in addition to their power armored one. Any army where a 4+ armor save is considered really good. I played Black Legion for a while and started to tone down. I was pretty bad with my army choices... like hitting the enemy in the face bad. My primary opponent was my friend and we would build lists, nasty lists, to take each other down. I learned the rules, played some games outside of my circle of friends and realized how easy it was to win with it.

I started to add flavor to the army, expanded it and eventually shelved it. I play LatD now and almost never look back. Its fun playing, the game can go either way. Its nice playing a fluffy army against other fluffy armies. I also know my army well enough that I can still win battles against cheesey armies. Sure I enjoy the win but I don't go home and brag to my girlfriend about beating someone with my toy soldiers, I go home and tell her I had fun with my friends.

As for tournies I pack the second basilisk.

When I first played with my SW I took the flashiest models I could, in a 1500 list I had a tooled up lord200Pts+ with reinue and landraider. It looked so coll untill the first turn where the land raider got blown up and I had my arse handed to me on a plate a by a player using vanila marines with tac squads. I never even made it into combat.

But then I had no tactics then. Years later I played the same list against a gaurd player and with some tactics made it into combat and starting eating his gaurdsmen. (the land raider still got blown up but not before it discharged its lethat cargo)

I really enjoy fun games with younger players as its light hearted, especially when they challeng my Wolf Lord to a one on one combat with there demon prince. I hate the competitive ness of Tournies and all the rules lawyering that goes with it. Its NOT why I got into the hobby in the first place.

Also playing Kids is fun as you get to use units you would not normally take and YOU get to WIN witch aint bad either lol

Is it really only the youngbloods you have fun with beef? The last league I was in I reminded a couple of my oppenents to move. Playing the game sans rules lawyering, using cool models and fluffy armies is a great part of 40k. People complain about combat squads and following the Codex Astares put forth by Guilliman(sp?) but in the 40k universe thats how they fight. Besides unless you are only playing in a tourny setting most fun and fluffy lists do just fine with a good commander behind them.