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This is my first post at dakkadakka! (Would have been earlier but it took me a while to figure out that Safari fails and I needed to use Firefox to post...)
Anyhoo, what do you all think of this army? I normally play straight sisters of battle but I wanted to try some IG, and I wanted doctrines (so no inducted troops). The hardened veteran squad is as close as I could get to combat-decent guardsman, I especially like the sergeant, he's pretty badass with the honorifica.

1750 point army, 4 faith points
Doctrines: Grenadiers, Special Weapons Squads, Drop Troops, Hardened fighters, Die-hards

170 – Canoness
    Blessed weapon, Inferno pistol, Cloak, Rosarius, Litanies, Book, Melta bombs
179 – Celestian Retinue x9
Veteran Superior, Bolt pistol, Power weapon
    Bolters, Heavy flamer, Meltagun, Banner bearer
 58 – Rhino
    Extra Armour, Smoke launcher

116 – Command Squad, Drop troops, Die-hards
    Senior Officer, Power sword, Plasma pistol
    Veteran guardsman medic, 3 Plasma guns
165 – Sentinel Support Squadron x3, Hardened fighters
    3 Mars pattern (Multi-laser)
60 – Special Weapons Squad, Drop troops
    Demolition charge, Meltagun

100 – Grenadiers x8
    Hellguns + targeters, 2 plasma guns, sergeant w/ hellpistol + cc weapon
103 – Chimera
    Multi-laser, Heavy bolter, Extra armour, Smoke launcher, Imp. comms

100 – Grenadiers x8
    Hellguns + targeters, 2 plasma guns, sergeant w/ hellpistol + cc weapon
83 – Chimera
    Multi-laser, Heavy bolter, Extra armour, Smoke launcher

173 – Sisters of Battle x10
Veteran Superior, Brazier, Power weapon, Book, Auspex
    Bolters, Meltagun, Heavy flamer
 58 – Rhino
    Extra armour , Smoke launcher

225 – Hardened Veterans x10, Drop troops, Hardened fighters, Die-hards
Sergeant [note: WS 5] w/ MC power fist, Bolt pistol, Honorifica Imperialis, Medallion Crimson, Trademark item
    Laspistols + cc weapons, 3 grenade launchers, Frag grenades

160 – Leman Russ Battle Tank
    Battle cannon, 3 Heavy bolters, Rough terrain modification


comments and suggestions are appreciated!
-Straylight

225 points for 10 T3 5+ save guardsmen?

Enough said.

THAT was enough said...

I took a look at the list anyway.

1) Vets costing more than 75 points are a point sink. You're giving your opponent an extra 150 VPs for this squad.

2) Instead of having 1 squadron of 3 sents, you should break them up into 3 single squadrons.

3) You should add another melta to your SWS. When they land, you want them to kill what they shoot. You can't count on BS3 to reliably hit. The 2nd melta will help your odds.

4) I'd rethink your doctrines choices. IG are not assault troops. They are gunlines, whether Mech or light, with drop trooping suicide squads added. Throwing points at them to up their WS is simply giving VPs to your opponent.

Sadly, I must agree. I tried several ways and times to use the Hardened Fighters doctrine, and have only found it even marginally useful when I can be sure of a cityfight or a very good infiltration set up. If you need a suicide assault unit of Guardsmen, and you aren't comfortable with drop-troop rapid fire weapons in that role and can't get RRiders, then set up a PHQ for it. Do so by upgrading all members to Veterans, arming them with chain-and-pistol, and giving the JO an honorifica and a fist. More attacks should trump WS4.

However, you have some good ideas about using Sisters in your Guard. Guard armies can do very well with a 'weight of metal' approach, and since the average Rhino comes in almost 50 pts less than the average Chimera, incorporating a bunch of Rhinos can up your vehicle count quickly, and give you flexibility. With Rhino Sisters (at least 2-4 squads) and Chimera Stormtroopers/Vets (2-3 Squads), you have moving tanks and sitting tanks in balance. Also, you can use jump pack Sisters as a powerful counter-assault unit to back up your Stormtroopers, eliminating the need for an overcosted Vet Squad.

Oh, and you don't have a standard in your HQ squad. Not having one is simply silly. They're always fun to model and always effective on the table.

Did you design this list with a theme in mind, or did you want to see if your tricked-out veterans would be effective?

-Adso

Thanks for the advice. I guess I just liked the idea of a IG squad that was decent in close combat (which was silly, I admit), but it looks like they are way too expensive for what they can do. Maybe I'll keep the squad but remove some wargear from the sergeant. I can't agree that a vet squad of more than 75 points is too much, as the base cost of 10 men is 85... but you're right, 225 is a lot of victory points. The idea of spreading out the sentinels is great, and they probably don't need the hardened fighters doctrine so I'll get rid of that. Buying a standard for the plasma suicide HQ squad seems risky, but I'll give it a try. Hopefully I'll have enough points left over for some seraphim.

That's because the base squad is the minimum 5 bodies with either 3 plasmas or 3 meltas...75 points. Regardless of your point of view, just about any variance from this adds cost without effectiveness. Adding more lasgun toters does not make the unit any more effective.

Well, adding five more models to the unit does effectively give the Sergeant five more wounds. Maybe they're not cost-effective, but they certainly help in keeping the damage-dealer protected. At least that's the way I look at it.

<table width="100%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" style="width: 100%;" class="afgrid" id="dnn_ctr385_NTForums_ntforums_post_tbForm"> <tbody> <tr id="dnn_ctr385_NTForums_ntforums_post_trReplyRow"> <td width="100%" class="afcell2"> <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td> Maybe they're not cost-effective, but they certainly help in keeping the damage-dealer protected.</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afcell1">The problem is that he's a pretty crappy damage dealer. Sure he's got a decent WS, but even with a fist, which makes him strike last, he's only S6. That's pretty awful for a unit that costs over 200 points. One WS5 S6 guy who strikes last. Lets not even looks at the other guys who are even worse and still expensive.

If you want fighty IG take close order drill. It wont make you fighty at all, but you can at least imagine your guys with semi organized attacks. Enjoy the mental image, better initiative, and best yet free cost.

You could also take a 66 point squad of rough riders with hunting lances. They are actually very fighty and very cheap. Sure after their first charge they are worthless (and probably dead in assault anyways) but they've got decent power weapons to slice up some marines or whatever. Fun modelling options with their mounts too.

If you really must have dedicated assault go with seraphim. Hit and run, plus some decent guns and weapons on the sister superior and you've got a pretty good counter charge squad. With good armor they are actually meant to be an assault squad and will proably cost about the same as your 225 point "fighty" officer. Plus the normal sisters in that squad are good too, unlike the non-fighty guardsmen.

If you're going sisters you can also go with an assassin. Callidus is probably the most cost effective, and she's got some neat tricks. Still a questionable choice, far more so than the seraphim would be, but better than the fighty IG you're trying to create.</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>