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I want to see what everyone's opinion is here. My vote is off wif 'iz 'ead!

- Greenie

One or two poorly executed projects isn't really cause to fire him. GW would have to pay a large severance package.

Plus, there's not much evidence that anyone else at GW is able to do a better job.

GW needs to start developing the next generation of writing talent anyway, but firing him wouldn't achieve anything and might well result in worse products, not better.

There's also the risk of other members of the team leaving to other companies if they don't feel they have adequate job security.

No

He is a really good designer. He gave us BFG, one of the most solid games to ever come out of GW.

I do however, think that his retro "Lets make 4th edition into 2nd edition part deux" is a bit off the mark though.

In fact I am tired of everyone saying "Its that way because thats the way it was in 2nd".

Reality check time. This isnt second edition people.

If you love second edition, then play second edition. Its complete and you dont have to wait for support.

Does not the fact that Jervis is copying 2nd edition so closely reveal that the development team in general is fresh out of new ideas and have been so for the past few years?

- Greenie

I think we need new blood to bring a fresh approach to 40K but I do love Jervis for what he did with the specialist games although his sole fault comes with living rulebook 5

While I despise the current direction 40k has taken, I don't think it's his fault. He is but the talking head of some seriously bad management, and that is where the problem lays. Has he contributed to it's awfulness? Possibly, especially given his remarks about his kiddie being in awe of special characters and using that as a guide. If true, perhaps he does, but only after management gets the axe as they are really the root of the problems.

>>Does not the fact that Jervis is copying 2nd edition so closely reveal that the development team in general is fresh out of new ideas and have been so for the past few years?

It could equally well mean they realise the simplistic approach of 3-4th ed does not work and they want to reverse the tide.

It would be a better alternative than burning down the entire system and rewriting it from the basics.

Companies like are like a family. The family grows up, some leave the home, things change. The head of the house hold cant control the change

Posted By Green Bloater on 05/30/2007 12:26 PM

I want to see what everyone's opinion is here. My vote is off wif 'iz 'ead!

- Greenie

No.

The problem is not Jervis. The problem is that 40k 4th ed. changed designer directions in mid-stream. That's not Jervis' fault; those are the actions of a management team that has no idea how to cope. Jervis is stepping in three years after launch, and while he has a completely different vision for the game (hopefully one that will bring some balance to it), he's been tasked with implementing it. By the way: this is basically what happened with 3rd ed. (starting with Codex: Necrons, the TAR, TVR etc.) and with 2nd ed. (From Dark Millenium on).

Yes, he is echoing back to 2nd ed., which is both understandable and problematic; hopefully, he can get the house in order and take it in a new direction that both evokes the old and inspires the new.

No, that would be an asinine move. The development team just needs to be leashed in to insure they don't remove all color from the game.

Out of a cannon.

Funny, I love LRB 5.0...

I actually like the new direction of 40K as well. The problem is exactly as Syr stated, they are wholesale changing things mid-stream. However, GW is not willing to do a 5th edition when they can squeeze more out of 4th... (and by 5th edition, I am also implying a sweeping change of gameplay, much as 3rd was to 2nd)...

My only hope is that we see new vehicle rules which put them back in the game on a reasonable level. (fixing the unkillable falcon, re-introducing the concept of transporting troops and making your average tank as tough and reliable as a Monstrous Creature, instead of many times more fragile) In the end, I would love to see something akin to Yak's vehicle rules, where everything in the game gets a Toughness Stat and Armour Values go the way of Overwatch shooting...

I don't think he should be fired, but then I am a little hazy as to what it is, exactly, that he does, apart from maundering inanely for two or three pages in White Dwarf.

I was going to say that he should not be fired, but they need to stop publishing his company-line dribblings. Then I realized that doing so would not mean more or better content, but just a couple more pages freed up for advertising. I guess they can let him keep writing articles for White Dwarf. Like Rush Limbaugh, he's occasionally good for one of those "Did he really say that?" chuckles.

Posted By jfrazell on 05/30/2007 2:18 PM
No, that would be an asinine move. The development team just needs to be leashed in to insure they don't remove all color from the game.

Like they did with 3rd edition?

 

People who did not make the RT to 2nd then 3rd forget how boring and bland 3rd edition was.  You no longer had scads of unique weapons and rules but  big generic peice of white putty with an army lable stamped on it. If they were truely going to back to the days of Eldar guided missles, rhinos hauling across the board and actually killing things by running over them or blowing up, or more importantly the utterly deadly shooting phase with overwatch I would be all for it. 

I'd vote no as well. He's just a mouth piece.

ender502

Heh. Mouth piece.

Posted By Green Bloater on 05/30/2007 12:57 PM
Does not the fact that Jervis is copying 2nd edition so closely reveal that the development team in general is fresh out of new ideas and have been so for the past few years?

Which is why they should put him back with Specialist, so he can continue to develop and improve old ideas. 40K has passed him by.

BYE

Jervis is just a patsy. They brought him back in so that they have someone else to blaim for the declining stock price, the lowering of standards, and the general neglect of the company. I kind of feel sorry for him, because he seems to me to be one of those guys that knows his stuff, but isn't as business savy to have made the smart decisions back in the day, when they first had the chance to grab the company up and direct it the way that it should have from the beginning. Now he is demoted to Chagie boy #1, Yes Man #2.
I'm sure he makes great coffee.

No doubt GW needs some fresh ideas that bring more diversity to their lines. GW needs to find new avenues to connect with their customers. GW needs to develop new markets. GW needs to stop the retail bleeding. GW needs to bring prices down and value up. If JJ is not up to the tasks he needs to go. Changing middle management does NOT create new vision for a company, strong upper management does. I'd give JJ a few more months to set a clear vision and set it in motion. At the same time I'd be looking for buyers to sell GW to when he fails. Sadly I think the only thing they could sell is the IP as the GW infrastructure seems to me one of GW's biggest problems.

Is Jervis in uppoer management?

40K is fundamentally hamstrung by the "forward-compatible" codicies. The game isn't as good as it could be, but they can't really overhaul the system as long as they insist on keeping codicies "compatible."

I'm pretty sure it's the business folks doing the insisting. And there are probably good business reasons. They might feel the customer base is shaky enough that a total system reboot will drive away more customers than it creates. That's definitely possible no matter how good the new system is. And remember that they have shareholders to please.

So do you roll the dice by blowing the game up and potentially fall flat on your face, or do you try to patch the game and keep the bleeding to a minimum? Seems like they're taking the latter approach, and Jervis is forced to try to make it work. I don't envy him...I've sort of been in a similar situation.

This is what can happen when companies get big and public...they can get conservative and less nimble.

Yeah, I had no idea that Jervis was upper management, with any kind of authority. I thought he was just a relic of the early days that had disappeared into the depths of Specialist Games, quietly hiding in a relatively safe environment, forgotten by upper management and quietly whiling away the centuries. Sort of like the coelocanth. Then suddenly management realizes that profits are falling, market share is shrinking, and lots of gamers seem unaccountably to be P.O.'d at Games Workshop, so they trawl the depths of the human resources pool looking for anyone whose file is more than 5 years old, and find this amazing creature from the dawn of the time! So they drag poor Jervis back to the surface, and force him to front for the current management's stupid decisions if he wants to keep his health benefits & retirement plan.

For some reason I thought he was a biggie-wig...

Kirbys the one who needs to grow a set...

Uh, Kirby doesn't need a set any larger than he already has. That's the problem. He thinks his (and his fellow executives) atrocious managment are the solution when it's painfully obvious it's the problem. As others have said, Jervis has been thrust into the spotlight and is but the mouthpiece of poor management.

Jervis should absolutely not be fired. He is one of the crown jewels of Games Workshop, whether they know it or not. He has done excellent design work, from Blood Bowl I all the way up to the (relatively) recent Epic IV. So he wrote one codex that was a bit inflexible and low-powered and wrote some lame editorials in White Dwarf, a magazine no-one in their right mind reads any more anyway. Should he be fired for experimenting with what is, let's face it, a rather marginal army list anyway? Should he be fired for giving stupid answers to what amounts to stupid questions?

I agree that the backwards-compatibility of 40K IV is seriously hampering its playability, but Jervis has to play with the cards he's been dealt. We (and I include Jervis in that "we") will likely not get 40K V for another 2-6 years. I believe that Jervis is a good designer, and that we will see an improvement in the game under his leadership. It will, however, be incremental improvement; we won't see anything major until the new edition comes out.

Graham got the boot because the Templars codex was considered a failure. So is DA, and even moreso. Sometimes you have to cut out all the garbage before you can grow again. Off wif iz 'ead!

Jervis is one of the few "friendly faces" GW has. He does a very good job with the public. While I agree that his best place would be in charge of a well supported Specialist Games (or even better Fanatic), I think he has made the best of a bad situation. I actually think the worst thing that could happen is yet another change of direction in the same stream. Does anybody really think that someone could pull off a miracle turnaround and save 4th ed, or that GW management would recognize and support that person? Hopefully the future holds a much improved new edition, and Jervis gives us more than a rickety rope bridge to get there.

At the start of 4th Ed, or around that time a certain other Veteran Games Designer wanted to give 40k the radical overhaul that you all insist Jervis should do- bean counters said not a chance are they risking their shareholders, keep pushing the same old, he left.

So, Jervis work is making the best of a very bad situation, to sack the scapegoat is the most simplistic, naive and pointless thing to do.

I think it would be insane to fire Jervis and I think a lot of people would be pissed if he did get the ax. From everything I've read, it seems like he's going to do a better job than some people are giving him credit for. I just hope he gets better support than he got in specialist games.