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Does either model have a place in a competative list? I'm trying to decide if I should ditch the 2 pirana I own (they are on sprue, look like fun to build, but their stats don't excite me on paper at all)

 

thx

 

 

There seem to be two major reasons to use them:
1) with fusion blasters and Targetting arrays for tank huntin'
2) Kept cheap to simply grab objectives, shuffle fleeing units off the board, and generally contribute to Mech Tau's general VP denial strategy. the piranha is AV11, a fast skimmer, and is non-threatening. You can probobly keep it alive for most of the game. It won't accomplish much, but a mildly survivable scoring unit is always useful.

So long as you are taking them in squads of one each they are a great unit. Like other vehicles, the rules for squads really hamper their ability to travel in groups effectively.

I think that the only really viable way to field them is with a fusion blaster and a targeting array, like Polonius mentioned. If you dont upgrade the burst cannon it's really too expensive for what you get out of it, I mean a single 50ish point burst cannon is really quite a waste.

Piranahs can serve a very useful role in a mech tau army, namely anti armor, duh. It may seem counter intuitive but you dont realy want to waste your railgun shots on armor as they have the potential for much more damage fired submunition against infantry. Your battlesuits are good against armor at close range with their fusion, but missle pods and plasma arent that great at taking out really hard target. Tau also have a lack of indirect (except for deep striking mono suits) and piranahs fill in nicely here as well. You'd take a piranah against targets that are not important enough to fire a railgun against (or if you dont want to use a very expensive single shot), cant be seen in LOS, or would require to many missle/ plasma shots from suits to take down.

They are great at contesting objectives. Most people ignore them and fire at hammerheads or suits, so you should usually fly around unmolested at the flanks. Definately less effective than a marine speeder, but still a good buy for Tau.

the other big advantage is that they use Fast Attack FOC slots, which are generally unused by mech tau, unless people use Pathfinders, which is totally possible.

Anyway, the piranha is not nearly as good as a marine speeder, but as an IG player, I can't count the times I've wished I had a fast skimmer in my army.

Mine are also still on sprue (for over a year, shocking! and they won't get built until I've finished my 6mm Napoleonics...)

The impression I get from reading the boards is that a lot of players are having a lot of fun with Piranhas but they are not showing up in high-ranking tournament lists. Probably because the points are better spent on Crisis suits and so on.

On the plus side, Piranhas seem to be better than Sniper Drones, Gundrone Squadrons and Vespids which nearly everyone despises. I don't know how much mileage they get compared to Pathfinders which are another unit that seems fun to use but is not usually found in tournament lists.

Piranahs are much better than sniper drones, vespids, etc. I wont say gundrone squadrons, however. Some tau players I know have had success using small sized gundrone squads to drop behind enemy vehicles for rear armor shots, but that's pretty rare these days.

The problem with pathfinders is that they rely so much on the markerlights. With the new networked marker lights it's hard to make the most of all the benefits with only one unit that can mark things up. Most lists that use markerlights go for tons of them so they can best use the advantages. Plus you pay a premium for pathfinders and they require a transport. In a mech list at 1500 or even 1850 points are pretty strapped if you want 3 railheads, full elite slots of crisis teams (probably with shield drones), and 2 shas'els. Pathfinders also arent very resiliant. In a mech list with JSJ suits it's hard to find any targets for normal anti infantry guns, pathfinders give the enemy just that.

If piranahs weren't fast they wouldnt be considered. Elites are oversaturated with crisis and stealth and the railhead dominates heavy support. As they are easy ways to add some more mobility and relatively cheap I see lots of tau players take one or two if they have the points. Just depends how many points the tau player spends tricking out his crisis teams, if he goes for 2 man or 3 man groups, shield drones or no, etc. Piranahs are far more prevelant at 2,000 points where you can completely fill the heavies and elites.

It's logical in higher points games you'd fill up the good stuff first then have points left over for the fairly good stuff.

I've always thought Pathfinders are a unit that will scale up very positively in larger games, because you have lots more good stuff for them to work with. (In other words, they are more than twice as useful at 2,000 points than at 1,000.)

One Tau player I know devilishly uses the cheap 50pt Piranhas to clog up the lines of fire when it crashes.  He'll go 24" right in front of a unit of devastators and just sit there spraying them with burst cannon fire.  When they shoot it down they're line of sight is blocked.  Neat trick.

The Pirana is actually a good fighting force IMO. But it can't be used to go solo, they have to be backed up and used as part of a grand strategy, or to use their Fast Vehicle ability to capture objectives etc.

I usually find a team of three Pirana's with a single fusion blaster upgrade works wonders in 2000pts battles.

As long as they are supported by troops other decent firepowered units they can effectively harrass an enemy and distrupt the enemies battle plans.

Personally I think they are a must if you're playing any battles of 1750pts or more.

***Samwise*** Have you checked the rules for fast vehicles moving over 12"??? I believe that your opponent would be unable to shoot anything if moved over 12"
I'm going to double check myself just to be sure. I have known poeple to use that tactic as well to sneak into my quarters behind woods and hills, then pop out and blast me from the side. I hate that tactic as much as you, hehe

The only thing that'd happen is that the skimmer would benefit from the SMF rule. It aint untargetable.

Nice tactic Samwise. I may use it myself .

They get that benefit it they move more than 6" in the movement phase, but if they move over 12" then they can't fire weapons. If they move just under 12" then they get the SMF rule and also can fire main a main weapon and defensive weapons.

If your opponent is moving 24" and shooting you he's cheating

Apologies Hellsguardian I thought you were refering to shooting at the pirana.

Hehe, no worries Brother Bartius

I played a game last night with me as Space Marines and my opponent using my Tau army.

I had my 3xspeeders hidden behind a building bottom left, he had his 3xpirana hidden behind a large hill top left.

We both refused to move our skimmers until the other moved first. It was quite funny.

SM "You go"
Tau "no, you go"
SM "uh uhh, not until you go"
Tau "well I'm not going
SM "fine, we'll just sit here all day then shall we!"
Tau "smelly pants"
SM "takes one to know one"

In the end I baited him with strength 10 dreadnought, he took the bait and used his fusion blaster within half range to completely melt him. Thankfully my dread survived with a multi-melta weapon loss.

A fast skimmer with a melta weapon is something to fear, as a Space Marine I usually field a skimmer with multi-melta and typhoon missile. Its 85pts and can reap a lot of damage.

The pirana has a less ranged weapon system, but is cheaper than the marine version and also better armoured. This means that the two are on par which is why I personally would always use a squad of three pirana's with 1x fusion in any of my games. Also Tau lack the ability to move across the table quickly as Vespid are the only other fast moving units.

This basically answers my question. I subscribe to the theory that if you only take a unit to use it to be blown up, then the model isn't worth taking in the first place, there are other more valuable models that have a use and if needed can be blown up if you required a sacrifice.

Thanks everyone, consider my pirana sold!

Personally I wouldn't write them off to quickly.

Remember they are cheap, and if equiped with a fusion can cause your opponent to squash there troops.

In the example I gave above I only drove my dreadnought towards the pirana's because I needed him to bring them out into the open, If I didn't succeed then he would have had another scoring unit able to conest the objective.

They are a good unit for causing worry and agiving a viable open for capturing or conesting quarters and objectives. When armed with the fusion which is a melta weapon you can sneak them around the table to get into a great position to smelt some poor unfortunate vehicle.

Thats why 2 of my speeders have melta's and typhoon, an effective weapon to take out even heavy vehicles and a good weapon setup for troops and normal vehicles. Even one on its own is a viable option considering Tau only have Pathfinders, Vespid and Pirana's and these are rarely fielded en-mass unlike Assualt Marines or Speeders squadrons

It was a huge gamble and I was fairly lucky it paid off. Otherwise I would have simply walked my dread down the centre of the table keeping away from the pirana and waste 5 turns trying to get a side shot with a lascannon. Ain't gonna happen.