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Well according to some insightful posts of a nice guy who took Orks to the LVGT and had a quick chat with Phil Kelly it seems that he will be responsible for the new Ork Dex.

So given that he's responsible for Godzilla Nids and the Eldar dex, do we think we can get a Threepete and have the Ork dex crammed with some goodies to make the army on the level of his previous two codex's?  I was thinking of something such as an improved Battlewagon (with assault ramp), no 0-1, and KFF's making things always glance again (think Falcon rush orks). 

I suspect the 0-1 will be gone. It's the trend lately, and if there's a kit for it, GW will want to flog it as much as possible.

I think that expecting much more is overly optimistic. The pendulum has swung since Space Marines, Eldar and Nids. I suspect Orks to be much more in line with Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Chaos. Notwithstanding who is writing it, it will still be subject to overall approval and direction.

And that would be a shame really if it were the case, but I'm not so sure that the pendulum has swung that far. The DA aren't all that good by comparison, but looking at the Blood Angels and even good ol' Jervis let quite a few biggies slip through that release. People are just down because it's not as all out broken as the old list, but it's still nasty.

Plus this is a Xenos release, which I think they have less of a chance of keeping toned down. If Jervis was at the helm when the Eldar book was done, do you really think that Holofield+Stones skimmers wouldn't be there or that Harlies wouldn't be what they are?

Orks already have a nerfed list; it's called Codex: Orks and it's been on sale for the best part of a decade. Orks should, MUST get a shot in the arm this time round. This is what I want:

Beefed up Warbosses: Toughness increases (4 + X or T 5), BS increase, Fearless.
Wargear: More built in wargear eg. Docs tools, uniform targeting rules for Runts and Squigs, WYSIWYG rules for the latter.
Shooty Ork units eg. Lootas: BS increase.
Big shootas & Rokkits: Weakened at long range and on the assault turn, boosted while immobile or at close range. Add plazma Kannon to weapon list.
Suggested Rokkit Profile 36" S8 AP 3/1* Heavy 1 Melta / gets hot* (18" or less)
Suggested Big Shoota Profile 36" S5 AP5 Rapid Fire 2* (*fires 2 shots at 13"-36" 4 shots at 0"-12"
Grenades: Simplified with unit based bonuses eg. tankbusta boys.
Buggy's & Tracks: converted to an SM Attackbike style profile so they can attack in close combat and turbo boost like bikes.
Bikes: boosted base save of 4+
Grots: not a core choice, should work like Skavenslaves in Fantasy.
Boys: boost min units for Troops choices.

 

Orks were nerfed????? They are one of the most playable, competitive lists out there. The models and vehicles are spank....but the army is just nasty.

 

 

 

The separate rules for moving and firing rockets or big shootas might be too complex for the kiddies to grasp.

I wouldn't mind seeing Orks in general be BS 3, like in Fantasy. It wouldn't unbalance the game any, and it would give them a bit more of a bit in shooting. Maybe then they could change the Shootas stats so its not just another bolter clone.

I also agree that the Warboss should be fearsome. Maybe also include a weaker HQ (ala 'Nids) for low points games.

Posted By General Hobbs on 06/11/2007 9:58 AM

 

Orks were nerfed????? They are one of the most playable, competitive lists out there. The models and vehicles are spank....but the army is just nasty.

Youre right. Orks werent nerfed in their codex, but they were nerfed by making other codecies.

In third edition, I would hazard to say that orks had the most balanced and fun list in that edition.

I really like the eldar codex. Even with as much flak that falcons (rightfully) get, I am sure Kelly can pull out another decent xenos dex.

I personally think Xeno's dex's should be on a bit of the powerful side. They only get one dex for that race, where as humanocentric dex's such as the imperium and chaos get oodles of slick stuff.

I say, make the orks a bit over the top in a couple places. They arent bad now against most armies, but against others, its like taking a stick to a gun fight.

Hopefully Kelly will have learned from his mistakes with elite carnies and missing making the falcon balanced.

Overall, I think he is a good developer.

Posted By Asmodai on 06/11/2007 10:04 AM
The separate rules for moving and firing rockets or big shootas might be too complex for the kiddies to grasp.

Yep, that's just what 40k needs, more lowering to the level of what "the kiddies can grasp"

I didn't aim that at you Asmodai, I just had to get it off my chest.

Posted By George Spiggott on 06/11/2007 10:37 AM

Posted By Asmodai on 06/11/2007 10:04 AM
The separate rules for moving and firing rockets or big shootas might be too complex for the kiddies to grasp.

Yep, that's just what 40k needs, more lowering to the level of what "the kiddies can grasp"

I didn't aim that at you Asmodai, I just had to get it off my chest.

Believe me, I'm as annoyed at it as you probably are.

A Warboss able to take a jetpack. That's all I want.

The Tau-Shield-Drone law means I probably won't get it though.

BAH double post!

Jump Pack?

I want a friggin Bike and a POWER WEAPON.

Good god, is it too much to ask to be able to give the HQ of my Close Combat army a SIMPLE BLOODY POWER WEAPON

godzilla nids are both the only competitive tyranid list and one of the most overrated, overhyped, unjustifiably feared lists in the game. I own one and I've faced them lots and I'm sick of all the whining and complaining. if the ork codex is the unplayable mess that the tyranids have become, I'll be selling my greenies. I *hope* they turn out as good as the dark angels

40 points: Pow-WAAAGH Wepunz: Count as force weapons.

Posted By George Spiggott on 06/11/2007 10:37 AM

Posted By Asmodai on 06/11/2007 10:04 AM
The separate rules for moving and firing rockets or big shootas might be too complex for the kiddies to grasp.

Yep, that's just what 40k needs, more lowering to the level of what "the kiddies can grasp"

I didn't aim that at you Asmodai, I just had to get it off my chest.

I think that's a bit unfair.  I'm an occasional gamer (and no kiddy), and having rules fairly uniform is very handy.  I don't have the time or inclination to buy and memorize ever codex, so things that break the basic rules are a real pain.  There's still plenty of variety you can create using the standard weapon types (rapid fire, assault, etc) without creating a new one. 

Some people like me look at the new codecii and think they're great because they're balancing up the game (in building comp so you don't need it as much). Look at the chaos codex, with T4 oblits, no speed princes, mutated hull is gone, daemon possession makes the vehicle BS3. Yes it is unfortunately just reactionary rather than proactive, but these are the fixes that were needed. They missed out on tau but for 1500pts everything else is ok (eldar are I guess overpowered at 1850, in line with the increases in tank hunting assault cannons at that points level though; as for nids, godzilla is good, which is exactly what they should be! you can't complain that they're overpowered, they're not).

My friend however sees these changes as a good reason to quit 40k and move on to fantasy. He believes (and is right) that GW are making it too simple. The only "tactics" in 40k is really terrain and army building, and they're fixing up the second bit by making sure most things you take will do well.

Posted By General Hobbs on 06/11/2007 9:58 AM

 

Orks were nerfed????? They are one of the most playable, competitive lists out there. The models and vehicles are spank....but the army is just nasty.

 

 

 

Ummm, what? I realise you play mostly marines, who  orks have a fair chance against (Choppas make it fairly even), but trying playing nids, monolith using necrons, tau or eldar with orks. It's an uphill struggle. Gaurd aren't too bad, but there are certain builds that will killify you. Orks "one of the most playable competitive lists out there?" hilarious.

Posted By Da Boss on 06/12/2007 3:47 AM

Posted By General Hobbs on 06/11/2007 9:58 AM

Orks were nerfed????? They are one of the most playable, competitive lists out there. The models and vehicles are spank....but the army is just nasty.

Ummm, what? I realise you play mostly marines, who  orks have a fair chance against (Choppas make it fairly even), but trying playing nids, monolith using necrons, tau or eldar with orks. It's an uphill struggle. Gaurd aren't too bad, but there are certain builds that will killify you. Orks "one of the most playable competitive lists out there?" hilarious.

I gotta agree with this guy, orks are just too easy to beat if you don't use marines.

They should totally beef up the Warboss and make him genuinely scary.  Orks should be tougher too, give em a 4+ feel no pain kinda thing.  And wierdboyz!  Make those guys rawk!.

Yes.

The problem is that you're trying to kill things with good armour saves. Not everything in the game has a good armour save! Try sending your warboss against some guardsmen - I'm sure you'll find he's more than adequate. And besides if you roll enough dice even 3+ saves fail eventually! Blahblahblahusetacticsblahblahblahorksarefineblahblahblah.

Wait, how do I change all the marines in my opponents army into gaurdsmen? Did I miss that wargear item?
*mutters, thumbing through codex*
Nope, don't think so...
Wait, is it a vehicle upgrade?
*Flicks forward*
Nope, nothing here either. Wierd. What codex have you got that lets an ork army transform MEQs into imperial gaurd?

(Yeah I assume you were being sarcastic there, but I couldn't help myself. As Hobbs demonstrated, there's plenty of people who think "Orks are fine")