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Made in us
Uhlan





Can they be a competitive force?  If so how, is it with a static army or does I.G. need to be mobile in order to compete?  I really like the I.G. list I'm just tring to find something from it that can give a good show consistantly.  The problem I have with my list is that they are great 1 out of every 3 games.  And that 1 game is mind blowingly good, but the 2 are a mess of guards man bodies.

I play +  
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





Alexandria, VA

I find that a mix between armor and infantry tend to do well as they are able to be well balanced. I think making guard competitive starts before the game even starts with good unit choices and deployment. Redundency is key in my guard army and I have multiple las/plas or heavy bolter/flame squads and multiple tanks.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I think in the big picture, IG are about the middle of the power curve...maybe a little below. Unless the game completely stacked against my opponent (my IG SAFH vs Grey Knights with little terrain), I find my games are very close and difficult.

I certainly have fun with them..especially because most of the games are very close and difficult, so they are quite a challenge. You'll find, though, that IG armies don't fare too well in most tournaments, which is why I think they're a little on the weak end of the spectrum.

Holy thread Necromancy Batman. We just might have a new record. - Jayden63 commenting after someone responds to one of my battlereports from 27 months ago 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Last Chancers with demo charges, army with Drop Troops, plasma guns, meltaguns.

Or Leman Russes/Chimeras.

I'd put Guard high on the middle of the curve thanks to Doctrines and Last Chancers.  Doctrines are pretty good; you can get more Hardened Vet squads, how gosu.
   
Made in us
Uhlan





I have only started noticing the power in a few last chancers, but because they rely on a special character can I use them every game or do I need my opponents consent?

I play +  
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator



Seattle, WA

You can use Last Chancers without your opponent's permission. They are not listed per se as special characters or have any restrictions for use.

I really do not think they are worth the points. At 25+ pts per special weapon guy that's not much better than a regular Vet guardsmen it's one expensive guy to lose.

   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Posted By Datajax on 06/19/2007 8:03 AM
I have only started noticing the power in a few last chancers, but because they rely on a special character can I use them every game or do I need my opponents consent?

Why would you need your opponent's consent?

Special Characters (those printed in Codexes) generally don't need anyone's consent.

The only time you need your opponent's consent is for experimental rules and certain Forgeworld units.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV


@Datajax
If you want to see a good IG list go to the battle report section and look for Will's vegas GT reports. He tied for third in battle points in a highly competetive enviornment with his IG army. He used a nice list, combinging tanks, static gunline units and dropping units plus an inquisitor for utility. His list is really similar to the list i run.

Yes they can be competetive, but you are far less likely to slaughter your enemy than you are with other armies. They have much bigger and more easily exploited weaknesses than other armies, but they are a ton of fun to play.

In a straight fire fight you can out shoot pretty much any other army in the game, combined with your leadership doctrines, your army is really well anchored.

Just remember, all it takes is one good hand to hand character making it into your lines, and your entire game plan can go straight down the tubes. that happened to me in a game last weekend. I played a white scars army, killed all of the assault marines and bikes, but the two jump pack equiped characters survived and made it into my lines and proceeded to wipe out 7 squads of gaurdsmen. I only took one of them down to one wound (damned artificer armor!) and the libby didnt even get scratched. They then made it all the way back onto the other side of the board and blew up a tank with melta bombs.

Needless to say I hate those little SOB's, but it illustrates the point. I even fed them a squad each to attempt to leave them out in the open after the charge to shoot them, but the stupid gaurdsmen passed their Ld check!

At any rate, yes you can be competetive with them, but it takes more forethought and practice than with an army like Chaos or Sm's.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





In my opinion IG are most powerful when they make use of the allies available. Running a GM with Landraider alongside your 2 chimeras and 3 Russes with Sentinels in support can give your opponent one serious migraine. This is only one solution, however.

In my opinion the name of the game with IG is maintaining mobility. Sure, you need a couple of squads to act as your firebase, but all the squads that can be should be mobile via deep striking, infiltrating, or transported. This helps to seriously mitigate the weakness of the guard in CC by allowing you to redeploy at will to compensate for a successful assault. If you choose the right allies, you can even retaliate in the assault phase, but this isn't absolutely critical to a competitive build.

The Guard armies that do the worst, in my experience, are the ones that slosh about on foot.

Ba-zziiing!



 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I find the most competitive IG lists are very simple.  Try to keep minimal upgrades and your Elites and Fast Attack as cheep as possible.  Also as far as infantry platoons, plas autocannon and plas lascannon squads are your only choices, some people claim that heavy bolter flamer makes good throw away squads but they are only 9 points cheaper then plas autocannon squads which can do allot more imo.  The key to success with guard is to understand the necessity of movement but also understanding that any movement will be slow and must have strategic importance.  With all that said IG is a really fun list but you MUST understand the subtle complexities of IG strategy and you have to learn how to push some of your infantry forward without losing too much of the necessary firepower the IG is known for.

That being said I find the most competitive way to use IG is to trick your opponent into thinking you are playing them, so he will underestimate you when making his army list, and then to play Space Marines or Eldar instead.


"The one difference between me, and a crazy person is I'm not crazy." 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Posted By epidemicHEART on 06/21/2007 4:36 PM

...some people claim that heavy bolter flamer makes good throw away squads but they are only 9 points cheaper then plas autocannon squads which can do allot more imo.

They're better throwaway units than Conscripts, that's the point I think most people who like HB/Flamer squads are making (atleast, it's the one I make).

Conscripts used to be good, but with the idiotic return of wipeout and Ld5, it's just not worth the risk. Instead, you can have a few 76 point squads that can add HB fire as the enemy moves up, then move forward, fire a flamer, then charge in with 21 I4 attacks.

You do that with three squads and your average sqaud of Assault Marines or Scorpians can't fight them off - too many wounds.

Meanwhile your vital AC/Plas and LC/Plas squad aren't stuck in HTH and can continue fighitng.

BYE


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Australia

Drop troops.

109/20/22 w/d/l
Tournament: 25/5/5 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I never looked at it that way, flame heavy bolter doesn't sound like such a bad Idea.  The only problem is getting close enough to shoot the flamer with your 5+ save, but I agree that while there not that much cheaper they are better equipped (with a flamer) to be a throwaway squad.

"The one difference between me, and a crazy person is I'm not crazy." 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Posted By inquisitor_bob on 06/19/2007 8:21 AM
You can use Last Chancers without your opponent's permission. They are not listed per se as special characters or have any restrictions for use.

I really do not think they are worth the points. At 25+ pts per special weapon guy that's not much better than a regular Vet guardsmen it's one expensive guy to lose.



A S8 AP2 ordnance template isn't much better than a regular Vet guardsman?

That said, you can bet your ass I'd max out on Hardened Vets anyways.  Those guys are soooo good.  Lots of plasma, powerfist in a squad of 10, and multiple CC if armed with lp/cc.  Frickin awesome.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Vets are indeed great for all kinds of reasons.

Powerfists and CC is not one of them.
   
 
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