Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, I know a skimmer doesn't block LOS. But can a flamer (or any other template weapon) be shot under a friendly skimmer? It says in the template rules "simply place the template so that the narrow end is touching the base of the model firing it and the rest of the template covers as may models as possible in the target unit without covering any friends".

Thanks!

Phil

I would say no.

Friendly infantry don't block LoS either, but you can't 'shoot' a flamer through them.

I believe that the book says you may not place the flamer template if it will touch your own models also.

wow, you're using storm guardians? wow

Flamers rule. I love my Storm Guardians.

That said, I agree with the previous posters. No putting the flamer template across your own tank.

Although it seems counter-intuitive because you can shoot non-template weapons under skimmers, I have to agree that we can't. There's nothing in the rules that lets us move the skimmer out of the way, and we sure as hell can't cover it. There's just no other way to do it.

Fire and heat go up....

no one wants their falcon's underside burned.

As amusing as it would be to allow it (and fairly reasonable since the flamers can't actualy hurt the tank), the rules do expresly forbid it in the "place the template covering the maximum enemy models without covering any friendly models" clause.

Just out curiousity whats so WOW about useing storm gaurdians? A big unit with warlock can do a little damage but they do a great job at holding up a unit while the serious cc apponants arrive.

They can do more damage than a regular unit of gaurdians as long as they make it into cc, and they are very very competant against non 3+ armies. If you have an eldar army thats cc based i would not leave home without a big 20 man unit or two 12 man units in wave serpants. Besides its a great unit to use doom alongside.

I must agree, the storm guardian swarm is something I contemplate every time I play with my eldar, nothing quite like beating genestealers in hand to hand. . . (Enhanced Warlock + alot of storm guardians, you go at the same time. . . )

Dream on Elf-Boy.... Stealers still have a higher I and higher WS; enhance has no effect. You still get ground up by Hive Fleet KillTreeHuggers.

(Besides, you already have Harlequins, which are traumatizing enough to the poor, misunderstood, much maligned Nids.)

But if the template is UNDER the skimmer, then it doesn't COVER any of the friendly skimmer.

Erm yes it does, the template of the flamer would cover the the base of the skimmer. therefore it will indiscrimitantly hit the skimmer. So you wouldn't be able to shoot the flamer under as the skimmer is a friend model and you can't purposely hit your own troops

Nothing in the rules implies that flamer, blast, or ordnance templates are ever placed under any models. They are placed over the models as an abstraction.

Hellsguardian, why are you bringing the skimmer base into it? The main rulebook FAQ makes very clear that skimmer flying bases are irrelevant for shooting resolution.

I think the main confusion here is the Skimmer's do not block LoS. Therefore most will assume that since you can draw LoS through a skimmer model you can fire through it as well. (which is inheritantly true except that it does not give permission to disregard the rules for placing templates)

Big thing here is that the rule only states that you can draw LoS through a skimmer. It gives no other actual allowances for shooting other than LoS. Therefore since the rule is only related to LoS you would still use the rule for the template weapons and not being able to cover any friendly models with it.

Basically the ability to draw LOS is the only permissive rule that effects shooting. The rest still apply, including the inability to place the template from a flamer touching a friendly model.

Now if someone with the available rule books would take my thought and apply the applicable rulings to it I would greatly appreciate it. I do not have access to any of my books at work but I believe I explained myself clear enough that anyone who has the books could write it much prettier with actual rules as written?

When did bugs get there I bumped up? Besides those flamers are good enough for the "tree huggers" to finish off a unit of bugs in cc.

Here's food for thought. If you have your skimmer next to a squad of troops and an enemy shoots its flamer so the template covers the troops and the base of the skimmer, would the skimmer be hit??

Of course it would, therefore why would it be any different for your own troops shooting under it?

I believe the RAW mentions that if any MODELS are touched by the template they are considered to be hit. <---"I've not quoted here so feel free to correct me"

The actual RAW says that the template cannot cover(touch) a friendly model period. Paraphrased.

Posted By hellsguardian316 on 06/27/2007 8:42 AM
Here's food for thought. If you have your skimmer next to a squad of troops and an enemy shoots its flamer so the template covers the troops and the base of the skimmer, would the skimmer be hit??

Of course it would, therefore why would it be any different for your own troops shooting under it?

I believe the RAW mentions that if any MODELS are touched by the template they are considered to be hit. <---"I've not quoted here so feel free to correct me"

If you want to shoot at an enemy squad with a flamer and an enemy skimmer is intervening- go ahead and shoot both if the flame template is long enough. 

For hellsguardian (although I'm not sure I understand the point of your post)- the distinction lies in whether the skimmer is friendly or not.  If it is a friendly skimmer then your flame template may not touch it (that is clear from the RAW).  If it is an enemy skimmer and you want to try to torch it along with the troops then by all means go ahead (so long as you have covered as many models as possible in the target unit first).  Also, I'm not sure why you are referring to the base of the skimmer- that is not considered when firing on a vehicle, only the hull is.