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I am thinking about adding tank hunter to one of my squads of devastators, and wanted to get some opinions -

here are the 2 squads:

6 man dev squad 1 - 3 Heavy Bolters, 3 Bolters

6 man dev squad 2 - 3 Missile Launchers

The squads will be part of a 1000 pt fairly balanced SM list.

I'm expecting to face tau, marines, IG and possibly eldar

I'm thinking that 9 strength 6 shots from the HB devs would possibly do better vs the  high number of AV10-12 vehicles and fast skimmers I expect to see, plus giving me 2 anti-armor units, or an effective anti troop unit, giving me some better flexibility.

Am I wrong?

3 missile launcers is what you want if your going to take down armor. S6 isn't going to help you against anything over AV12, with the exception of eldar, both of the other races you mentioned can field them. Heavy bolters are great for taking down infantry, but leave the tank hunters off of them.

Against Falcons:

ML (Tank Hunters): 2/3*2/3 = 4/9 of a glancing hit
ML (no Tank Hunters): 2/3*1/2 = 1/3 of a glancing hit (loss of 1/9 of a glance vs TH ML)
HB (Tank Hunters): 2/3*1/6*3 = 1/3 of a glancing hit (loss of 1/9 of a glance vs TH ML)

Clearly, TH on HB devs is actually quite a good and cost-effective idea if you expect to face a lot of Cheese Skimmers. Can you really not scrape up the points to give TH to both, though?

I don't understand your reasoning. TH HB are worse than TH ML and not good at all vs. armor more than 12. How is it more cost effective?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Tankhunters is useful on heavy bolters when you are shooting at transports.

Because a TH HB squad is cheaper and only slightly less effective vs AV12 skimmers. Against eldar they are the better choice because they are more effective vs everything baring wraithlords (which you wont see in a skimmer army) and are cheaper. against mech tau, however, they are an inferior choice beacuse they wont be able to damage hammerheads.

Perhaps it's cost-effective, Oz, because it is lower in cost? You know, the one thing you didn't mention at all? Note also the lack of "more" in my post--I am saying that TH HBs are good, not that they are better (I wouldn't say they are, due to the Tau issue Reecius mentions), hence my question as to whether he really can't afford to get both.

Thanks for the responses!

Yeah, if I drop a model, I can possibly do it. 

Now for another question - this may be more of a YMDC thing, if so I'll ask it there..

If I take "See, but do not be seen", and "Trust your wargear" can I take infiltrating AND tank hunting (and pricey!) devastator squads if I make them elite?  In other words, use the ability of "See, but do not be seen" to make my devs infiltrate, then use "Trust your wargear" to make them elite and make them take tank hunters.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Sorry, with the new DA, ML and HB are the same price (I think). I forgot that they are cheaper in C:SM.

Still though, he said he's facing Tau, Marines, IG and possibly Eldar. Why are we focusing on the Eldar part of that?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Probably because of the Falcon's infamous status as the game's most annoying tank. In much the same way, had he mentioned that he was expecting Tau, Marines and 'Nids, no doubt everyone would have focussed on killing TMCs.

Also, this topic is about which of the two squads should get TH, not which of the two he should use (they are both in his list). At 1k points, it seems like ML devs should be able to handle most armour even without TH, doesn't it? I mean, assuming they aren't the only AT in his army.

agreed, it seems reasonable to say that the heavy bolters will benefit more from tank hunters than the ML's will in almost any situation baring an army that has a lot of armor 13 and 14 vehicles.



I would say yes, i cant think of anything off hand (no book here at work) that would bar you from having two vet skills. See but dont be seen allows you to take infiltrating on dev squads, while trust your wargear lests you take either infiltrate or tank hunter. They are both permisive rules and neither (IIRC) says that only one can be taken, nor does anything else in the BGB or SM dex, i believe.

That would be a bit to pricey for me though, you are increasing the cost of the marine by nearly 50% when he dies just as easily as a normal marine. However, there are some situations where it could be pretty dang useful.

Why do you want to infiltrate your heavy weapons? They have 36" (or 48") range so shooting at just about anything you want from your deployment zone shouldn't be a problem. The only benefit I can see is the ability to deploy last (and thus be put into a more advantageous position). In either case, paying extra for it really isn't worth it.

Tank Hunter Devs are good, but the best thing about them is freeing up the HS slots for something else. Missile launcher Devs are the way forwatrd, you have plenty of heavy bolter options elsewhere, including cheap 5pt upgrades is assault orientated tactical squadsm Razorbacks Speeders etc.

The only benefit I can see is the ability to deploy last (and thus be put into a more advantageous position

Huge advantage, especially versus Tau, who hide from you first turn because they can do "pop-up" attacks.  By infiltrating, this minimizes the Tau effectiveness.  Of course, you need first turn.  But there are options for that also. (inquisitor)

I agree with the priceyness, though.

I would think that you need to keep your heavy bolter ripping up the troops. AP of the heavy bolter is wasted on tanks. If you are having that big of a problem with tanks. You might want to invest in tactical units with a heavy weapon.

Btw, TH HB squad listed is 153.
Non TH ML squad listed is 150.

You're paying 3 points more for the same effectiveness vs AV 12 skimmers, and have nothing that can touch AV 13+.

Posted By skyth on 08/23/2007 7:15 AM
Btw, TH HB squad listed is 153.
Non TH ML squad listed is 150.

You're paying 3 points more for the same effectiveness vs AV 12 skimmers, and have nothing that can touch AV 13+.

HBs cut through dire avengers and firewarriors, are also better against marines in cover.  I like the TH HB squad, it's got the potential to fill a lot of roles where MLs will only do one very well.  If your anti-infantry is just fine, then perhaps a 2nd ML squad would suit you better.  Otherwise the TH HBs are a good intermediate.  Deploy them a good distance apart and an opponent with AV13 may have to choose between giving the side armor shots to your HBs or MLs.