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I used to gripe about lack of separation between AP 1 and AP 2. "What's the point?" Now AP 1 has the nifty trait of having nothing but penetrating hits (when allowed...stupid smoke) on vehicles. But what about the infantry? I think the two armor penetration values could stand a little more separation. I see a significant difference between the weapons that boast those AP values. I just think that there should be another tier of armor that creates still another degree of differentiation.

I suggest that there exists special armor with a regular armor save of 1+ -HOWEVER- a roll of a 1 always fails to save. Sounds dumb but it at least allows the wearer to make a save against AP 2 weapons. Or maybe just war gear that explicitly states that it can still save against an AP 2 weapon.

It just makes sense that power armor can withstand an assault cannon but fail to an ion cannon. Terminator armor can resist that same ion cannon and yet fall apart under plasma fire. Yet no armor exists that can resist that plasma yet still fail to the uber railguns/meltaguns/and the like of the 40k universe. I think there's a difference that exists between the precision penetration of a railgun and the indiscriminate demolisher cannon that can still be acknowledged in a gaming sense in regards to infantry.

I know this suggestion will probably irritate non-space marine players (like people I know) who can't stand the marines getting any more benefits. But I think that such an armor can appear in a variety of ways in all armies.

What do you think?

I don't think that any new armor classes need to be invented. The only relevant difference between AP1 and AP2 is that AP1 always penetrates when a penetrating hit can be achieved. 2+ armor saves are difficult enough to deal with without a new classification of units that can only be killed by railguns and melta guns.

I don't want to deviate from the topic of this thread too much, but I do feel that the price of terminators is far too expensive given the relative price of AP2 and lower weaponry and the fact that their base toughness and stength remain 4, but I don't think that the answer is a new classification of armor that only has its save ignored when it's shot with AP1.

It might help you cope with the situation if you only think of AP1 weaponry as AP2 weaponry with a specialization for vehicles. I mean, in a space marine army the only real reason I'd ever bring meltas over plasma is for the damage they cause against vehicles.

sure meltas are less shots but at least marines wont blow their faces full of plasma and can instakill toughness 4 characters.

The point of AP 1 is simply to differentiate weapons when going up against vehicles. There isn't supposed to be any difference between AP1 and AP2 when dealing with infantry. Either one will make a mockery of trooper based armor its just that one will also tare though tank armor as well. I'm perfectly ok with the current distinction.

I wouldn't mind seeing Terminators become 1+ armour save (maybe even losing the 5+ invul) or T5, or even T5 1+ 5++ all together. I don't feel S5 is necessary, they get Powerfists and they are bulky and slow.

They _are_ supposed to be Terminators, after all. This would give them a considerable advantage over 3+.

As far as ICs are concerned, it would be a difference over 2+ Artificer Armour and they would still be penalized by losing their sweeping advance.

A question would have to be made regarding close combat weapons.

Say Power weapons and Powerfists AP2 but Chainfists, Lightning Claws and Rending AP1.