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My Eldar army may not be even a quarter painted yet, but that doesn't mean I can't daydream about a possible second, absolutely impractical army. Being Sisters, it's obviously more of a "just for fun" list; at the same time, being Sisters, a "just for fun" list needs to be stuffed as full of (low-grade) cheddar as possible to contend with other armies' "just for fun" lists, so have at it!

HQ (261 pts.)
-Canoness: jump pack, blessed weapon, brazier of holy fire, frag grenades, Book of St. Lucius, Cloak of St. Aspira (131)
-Canoness: jump pack, eviscerator, inferno pistol, Book of St. Lucius, Cloak of St. Aspira (130)

Elites (140)
-Inquisitor (20)
-Callidus Assassin (120)

Troops (698 pts.)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 2 melta guns (174)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, eviscerator, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 2 melta guns (174)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, eviscerator, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 1 melta gun, 1 heavy flamer (176)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, eviscerator, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)

Fast Attack (246 pts.)
-8 Seraphim: 2 TL inferno pistols (246)
        1 VSS, eviscerator, bolt pistol, Book of St. Lucius

Heavy Support (405 pts.)
-Exorcist (135)
-Exorcist (135)
-Exorcist (135)

Points: 1750
Faith points to start: 8

The obvious problem is that all my opponent needs to do is stop 3 Rhinos, which is the easiest thing in the world to do; the question is, do I have any other choice? Is foot-slogging viable (or as viable as Sisters get)? The total cost of the Rhinos is, curiously enough, exactly what I'd need for another melta squad, but would that do any good?

How do you plan on using the battle sister squads? I just note that you have both CC weapons and bolters/meltaguns. Are you boltering people, or using the chainsword?

Also I note you have a naked inquisitor. Was wondering why. Seems like a waste of something potentally able to be tuned to fill out any weakness in the army.

If you can get your transport total up to (say) 5 Rhinos (not terribly hard, mech guard will have that many Chimeras, plus Russ support) you can do a lot more with those transport vehicles, and some of them are going to get some play.

Here's the caveat - I haven't played sisters, ever.

I plan on boltering people, but anticipate getting charged. I know 25 points is a lot to pay for 5/6 of a dead Marine per turn. Perhaps I should swap them for PWs? A S5 PW is not too shabby in a pinch.

Anyone who tells you that Inquisitors can "fill out any weakness in the army" is selling something (probably an Inquisitorial retinue on eBay, to be precise), sorry to say. There's only one thing a WH Inquisitor can efficiently provide, and that's heavy bolter spam. I'd like to use that, since the list is pretty low on anti-horde, but I don't think I can find the points for it.

What would you suggest dropping to up my transport count?

I think the optimal loadout is HF and Meltagun for sisters, as you get a silly amount of anti-horde. Tanks fall quite easily to seraphim, the existing meltas, cannoness shots, and Exorcists (That AP1 goes a long way). I'd trim the fat on those units, eviserators on VSSs and books are not required = the points saved can buy you more Seraphim, which have a great chance of passing that faith test to make them invulnerable. Nuns in buses do deliver though, if you practice killing all possible counter attack units within range. Walls of buses work pretty good for that one too!

In short:
Cut all special gear for Vetern Sister Superiors, bolt pistol/ccw is just fine.
Drop both your elites
Cannoness loadout should be as follows: jump pack, eviscerator, inferno pistol, Book of St. Lucius, mantle of ophelia (sp?),Cloak of St. Aspira
Second cannones should be the same, although I think the mantle and cloak are 1-per.

Pick up another Seraphim unit (2 pistols), give them both the inexpensive upgrade to roll 3 dice on faith tests.
OR
Load up on Sisters/Dominions. A car of dominions can clear out some heavy resistance when you get 4 possibly AP1 flamer templates.

You gain: Numbers, anti horde capabilities, combat alternatives thanks to seraphim hit and run, 3 mobile inferno pistols (again, thanks to hit and run....), a martyr cannoness that should eviscerate a character and survive all possible S6 retaliation, and a faith point.
You lose: Minor deployment options due to books, loss of close combat option for sisters (although I find they get eaten even with the evis), and an assassin that I've never had do anything.

Well firstly, you have stated you aren't playing this army competitively. With that caveat in mind:

I am indeed selling an inquisitor retinue, painted, but linking it here would be bad form :-)

An inquisition warband with a matched transport is a wonderful model and a good army centerpiece. And it's actually not bad vs the armies it tends to meet. (The power shield men can be particularly annoying).

CC Hero at _minimum_ needs jump, anti-instant death thing, invulnerable save, eviscerator and melta. It's just not frightening otherwise. With no-splat, invulnerable save and a fist, it can actually beat down heavy stuff.

Battle Sisters, drop the book and close combat weapon. Bolter or chop. Not both. Do you have enough anti-infantry - I dunno what your group's metagame is like? If not, lose some melta. You have jump packers with enough of that, and exorcists.

Transports, I assumed you wanted to use them as you were saying you found it hard to get play with them.  If the battle sisters are just going a-boltering, they are less necessary. Can always get more Seraphim over transport vehicles.

My "recommendations"

I'd reserve rhinos for dominion squads, and make Troop squads marching w/ Storm Bolters. You can take squads of 14 models easy instead of taking Rhinos.

It's too bad Purgatus and Divine Pronouncement kind of suck. I think you need LOS to cast Purgatus, unlike Mind War. You can give him a power weapon and a Storm Bolter at least.

And no sisters list is complete w/o Arco-Flagellents XD. Altho I think maybe you need a Preist with them.

So much conflicting advice. What to do? Hm.

Keldrin: I think I will be dropping the eviscerators, but the books seem essential. Also, 10 points gets a potentially S5 power weapon; isn't that a worthwhile investment for a unit that will be operating at a 12" range?

The Canoness loadout you describe is not so very different from what I'm using. I suppose I should fit in the Mantle on one of them. (The Cloak is not one per, btw.)

I don't believe in Dominions. Flamers suffer diminishing returns for each one you add, and massing meltas in a single squad is just asking for it. The inflated cost doesn't help, either.

The current squad already has "the inexpensive upgrade to roll 3 dice on faith tests"; in their case, it is called a VSS. The extra Seraphim unit is tempting. Will think about it. Do you think I should drop the squad sizes down to 6 if I do this?

I am leery of losing the Assassin as it's one of the only things in the list that can reliably touch someone every game. I'm also addicted to Word. I'll try a few games without and see how it goes.

bluedragon: I may have given the wrong impression. What I mean is that I don't intend to take this to any tourneys (which are extremely scarce where I am anyway), but due to the nature of the army, would like to make it as optimised as possible so as to have a fighting chance.

If I wanted masses of S3 PW attacks, I'd use my Eldar army instead. So no CC Inq ret, I think.

A rosarius is a terrible waste of points on a model that's going to be using a 2+ Inv. when it matters. As for the anti-splat, I will try and find a way to put it on the evis Canoness. Is it really that crucial, though? It seems to me that most S6+ attacks the Canoness will suffer won't come alone ("That's how many scatter laser shots/PFist attacks, you say? Oh dear. . ." ). 15 points seems a fair bit for something that relies on the heroine taking exactly one instant death wound, no more or less.

I will probably lose some meltaguns, as you say. It would be a terrible shame for a Sisters army to get owned by a horde, of all thingsl!

Transport-wise, I'm just wondering how on earth flamers and meltaguns are ever going to get used walking 6" a turn. Perhaps you have some input on this (as an opponent of Sisters, if not a user)?

Tacobake: The idea that I may not need to have my troops ride around in death traps is appealing (and will give me something to do with the SB models I'm bound to accumulate), but does it really work? I'm not exactly impressed with the prospect of a 14-body squad contributing what amounts to the firepower of two ordinary Terminators. . . . Basically, how does such an army win games? What does it do? Do enlighten me.

Purgatus is Lord only, so it's right out. To be honest, my plan for the Inquisitor is to stick him in a corner, hope he doesn't die, and not really care if he does. Since I can't afford a shooty ret for him, he's just 20 points of necessary evil as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the input, all!

How do flamers suffer diminishing returns for each one you add? Were I to play sisters, dominions with flamers would probably be my favorite unit. Four flamers with divine guidance is nasty. I would be more inclined to take seraphim over dominions if a canoness could inherit the hit and run ability by joining the seraphim squad. I'd like to use a unit of seraphim with St Celestine, but I'm leery of Celestine's anti-martyrdom rule.

I agree that you should not drop the books: they're a steal at 5 points. I would drop the inquisitor and assassin and see if you can add something that gives you another faith point. Since you don't like dominions, Keldrin's suggestion of a second seraphim unit would do the trick.

I think sisters would be a lot of fun to play. If you build this army, let us know how it goes.

i never said drop the rhinos. just they are less necessary and you can get more jump pack girls instead of _more_ rhinos. your cc hero needs invulnerable save and protection from instant death - or were you planning on running from dreadnaughts? i dont care how you get that combination, but if you don't have it, you can't call yourself a CC Hero.

bluedragon: I think I'll take your advice on the 'phim.

Dreadnoughts are not that common in the current metagame, so I'm not that worried about it, plus I'm not packing 9 meltas and three Exorcists for nothing. If it comes to it, I'll just have to take my chances with that 2+ Inv. save, or lose a few Seraphim to take it down with the VSS's evis.

shirou: Flamers suffer diminishing returns because of that nasty old "resolve each template separately" rule. Each successive template is going to hit fewer models than the one before it. Besides, what are you shooting at that needs four flamers to kill it? The fact that 26 points more than a 6-sister Dom squad with four flamers gets you a 10-sister normal squad with a flamer and heavy flamer is the nail in the coffin, IMO.

I guess I will go with the Seraphim, though I think I'll miss the assassin. At least I'll be able to say it's a pure SoB army now. How about this:

HQ (266 pts.)
-Canoness: jump pack, blessed weapon, inferno pistol, frag grenades, Book of St. Lucius, Cloak of St. Aspira (136)
-Canoness: jump pack, eviscerator, inferno pistol, Book of St. Lucius, Cloak of St. Aspira (130)

Troops (647 pts.)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 2 melta guns (159)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, power weapon, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 2 melta guns (159)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, power weapon, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)
-10 Sisters of Battle: 1 melta gun, 1 flamer (155)
        1 VSS, Book of St. Lucius, power weapon, bolt pistol
        Rhino: extra armour, smoke launchers (58)

Fast Attack (432 pts.)
-6 Seraphim: 2 TL inferno pistols (202)
        1 VSS, eviscerator, bolt pistol, Book of St. Lucius
-8 Seraphim: 2 twin hand flamers (230)
        1 VSS, eviscerator, bolt pistol, Book of St. Lucius

Heavy Support (405 pts.)
-Exorcist (135)
-Exorcist (135)
-Exorcist (135)

Points: 1750
Faith points to start: 9

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 10/13/2007 1:12 PM

shirou: Flamers suffer diminishing returns because of that nasty old "resolve each template separately" rule. Each successive template is going to hit fewer models than the one before it. Besides, what are you shooting at that needs four flamers to kill it? The fact that 26 points more than a 6-sister Dom squad with four flamers gets you a 10-sister normal squad with a flamer and heavy flamer is the nail in the coffin, IMO.

Wow, somehow I completely missed this rule.  Thanks for pointing it out.  That does force me to reevaluate dominion squads.

I really really dont like pfists on independent characters. if you insist on using eviscerator, at least protect the canoness properly. If it's not dreads, it's assault cannons, and if it's not assault cannons, it's plasma guns, and if it's not plasma guns, it's a little squad with a pfist wielding veteran. If you fail the save vs a multilaser or grenade launcher, I'll just laugh. (Although a multilaser is basically decent, there's no shame in getting taken out by one of those...) Am assuming oyu know you can't allocate CC hits vs those sneaky pfist veterans but as an IC, they can attack you directly?

[edit for typos, it appears i can't spell eviscerator]

Seraphim are in my opinion, probably one of the best units in the game behind Falcons, harlequins, and dakkafexes. In my old SOB list, I used three squads of eight along with 2 jumping cannoness and 3 exorcists for a nasty combo. The remaining force was 20 sisters in rhino with melta/h flamers.

Evicerators are definitely the way to go with cannoness. Their Initiative isn't great and since they can basically get a 2+ invulnerable with no instant-death, you really should worry too much about striking last. Inferno pistols are allrigiht but I like my seraphim with flamers since they can flame a unit, charge it, hit+run, and basically hop-scotch across the field into the enemy's soft rear lines of devastator/basilisk analogues.

bluedragon, you don't have to convince me that no-splat is good. I know it is, and will work it in if I can find the points (like dropping an inferno pistol). I just don't think it is as obligatory as you do.

Sgt. Scruffy, it's possible that I'm being a little too melta-happy, but I like having one squad of Seraphim that I can keep small (no need to DG) and hunt tanks with. Rhinos go down all too easily, so I don't want my only meltas to be there.

Any other suggestions, anyone? I own none of these models except some Seraphim, so please feel free to suggest as drastic a change as you like.

Someone? Anyone?

The Invulnerable mantles on the Cannonesses can go. A 2+ save is plenty, since they can't be shot unless they are closest, and in a pinch can be made 2+ invulnerable with a Faith Point and a leadership check. Good placement helps avoid the powerfists in the squads as well.

I have come to hate power weapons on Sisters. Just about anything that wants to assault you is going to be T4+, and wounding on a 5+ after hitting on a 4+ makes power weapons less than exciting. I find the Eviscerator really makes a big difference, though I would just as soon have a power fist and save some points. *sigh* A pair of power heels would do...

If you have the points, and they are costly, I do like Eviscerators on Sister squads since they are likely to get into hand to hand. On the other hand, I REALLY love assassins, so I would be willing to pull the eviscerators for one. Especially since an Inquisitor with heavy bolter servitors would go a long way towards anti-horde. Alternately, to keep it all Sisters (an admirable goal) make one Sister unit Dominions with a Heavy Bolter Immolator, using the extra points for another meltagun or something. I am toying with that idea for my list.

I don't like Books of St. L. either. I might be wrong, but I have just never wished I had one.

Good luck with the Exorcists though. Great units, but the official models are a pain to build, though they look really cool when done.

Oh, also forgot to mention that the only flamers that excite me are on Seraphim. I find the sister's flamers don't get much mileage. I don't know if that is universal, since a mech list might put them where they need to be better.

I also don't know how I feel about Inferno pistols on Seraphim. I haven't used them yet, but it seems that krak + an eviscerator or melta bomb Vet makes it worth it.

Oh, things I find easy to forget: Seraphim Vets count as Simulacrum Imp. so always get 3 dice for Faith. They also give +1 LD to all non-Seraphim units within 6", to 10, non stackable. Those are easy to forget, but really make a big difference. More esoteric units like Repentia have a whole other pile of special rules to mess you up too. "Why no sir, I am not Fearless. I just don't take morale checks in melee..."

Edit: Drat, forgot this too. The Invulnerable mantle is highly questionable. It only helps once. With so much that shoots/swings at Str 6+ chances are really good that is going to be a quickly lost 25 points (or is it 20?). For those 20+ points you could have another two Sisters, or another Seraphim.

Oh, another fun Inq. trick is Inq. with combat servitor (any flavor), Familier and Power Stake. Sucks in melee, except against things with psychic powers, like Demon princes. 4+ to hit, 2+ to wound, Inv. save only, at I5 (IRCC) is a fun surprise for that Lash Prince or Warptime using baddy thinking to assault your heavy bolter firebase.  Depending on your metagame though, that might not apply at all.

Thanks for the very thorough crit, Wehrkind!

Cloaks aren't Rosariuses. I think you'll find they're needed to get that 2+ inv. save.

Against MEqs, the PW actually does better statistically when being charged than the evis, provided you can get Hand of the Emperor off. I figure I have enough Faith to spare, so I'll give the PWs a chance. Rest assured I'll be keeping a close eye on their actual usefulness. It may well be the case that I'll find them getting charged by big nasties or ICs often enough that evis-or-nothing is the better option.

Like I said, I'm a fan of Assassins too, and will probably have an alternate list with a BoLS-pattern Inq ret and Cally. As far as anti-horde goes, I'm considering a min unit of Celestians with a single HB and twin flamer Immolator. I figure an empty Immo should be low enough priority to close, and if it gets taken out, well, that's one full Rhino that didn't get destroyed. If I drop one squad of Rhino Sisters and trim a few more points elsewhere, I could get two of these. Think it would be any good?

Hm, it seems a lot of people find the Book to be overrated. To me, the insurance seems worth the small cost. With their Init, fleeing from combat too often means you won't have a squad to rally in the next phase.

I don't plan on actually using the Exorcist model. It looks great if you're just fielding one, as no doubt GW envisioned players doing, but they get kind of absurd en masse. Will probably go the boring old Whirlwind option or use Typhoon launcher parts.

I am not a huge fan of flamers myself--hence the melta spam--but I figure I'll be overwhelmed by hordes if I don't chuck in at least a couple. They're of course much better on Seraphim, but the same applies to inferno pistols vs squad-borne meltas, right? Hence the compromise, one squad of each.

What you mentioned about the no-splat Mantle is pretty much my thinking, too. Doesn't help if you fail more than or less than one save against S6+, so kind of iffy. Given that the save in question is a 2+ Inv, I suppose the odds of failing exactly one are not all that low, but it still seems like less than an absolute must-buy to me. It's a little cheaper than you think, though.

Thanks again for the thorough response.

You are right, I forgot the Rosarius is the +4 Inv, the Mantle is the No Insta Kill. I had the fear of those beat into me a little while ago, and had forgotten in the interim.
The trouble I have with the No Insta-kill is that it doesn't help against multi shot things much, for instance melee with monstrous creatures, dreadnaughts, multi lasers, random xenos heresies that fire multiple str 6+ shots, etc. It is just so easy to get tagged by more than 1 big thing in melee that it doesn't seem worth it, and she is really easy to hide from ranged attacks. I do field one on my Apoc. list though.

The trouble with the power weapons is that you have to use Hand of the Emperor to really make them shine. I haven't run the numbers, but how does Divine Guidance stack up? Does having the entire unit have power weapons on 6's and hitting at I3 (admittedly mediocre) make up for it? I dunno, personally I just like the Eviscerator since it gives some good melee anti-vehicle and consistant rippy death. For my foot sisters though, I have been running either naked Veterans, or a Storm Bolter for the shooty squad and plasma pistols on the close action squads (though mainly because the model came with them...)

I don't like Celestians. The only real advantage they have is 3+ to hit everything (meh), the ability to take a heavy bolter, and no need for a vet. For +2 points a peice, that seems a little iffy. Granted, dropping the Vet pays for 7 Sisters to be Celestians, so that is kind of nice, but I just don't know that it is worth it. I am going to try it in my Apocalypse army, mainly because I have 1 heavy bolter sister and don't feel like buying more to make Retributors, and Divine Guidance heavy bolters seem like fun. But then points don't matter in Apoc.

Generally I run 3 sister units. One is pure shooty with 3 Storm bolters and 13 girls and a simulacrum (I like the model, and sometimes REALLY want that Earthshaker to not kill them all.) I find this and the 2 HB/1PC Inquisitor with Scourging makes a really nice firebase to hold off hordes. The other units both have a flamer and a melta, with a vet with plasma pistol and 10 girls. They move around a bit or sit in cover, depending on the enemy. I play a Tau player pretty regularly, so they are very agressive usually, or against other lists I generally try and aim for rapid fire range, then either pop in Seraphim to hold the enemy still for a turn to be rapid fired again, or try to act as a tar pit until either an assassin, Cannoness, Repentia or Penitent Engine gets there to help. (Not that I recommend the Repentia or Penitents, I just have a bunch because I thought they were cool, and now I am sad to let them go.)

I think you could make a really pretty faux exorcist with a Immolator sprue and some Whirlwind parts, along with some spare Immolator bits. I just really dig the pipe organ look. Were I to drop the pipes, I would still probably leave the player, just because she looks really cool.

On seraphim I am torn about the Inferno pistols. I am inclined to think the best layout is the flamer/eviscerator set up. Inferno pistols might be a good thing to mix in, maybe one in each unit, particularly since templates are resolved sequentially (I didn't know that either.) If Seraphim could deep strike, I would like the pistols more, but as I use them mainly as a counter charge screen, only to have them hit and run into the back field, I like the cheaper, more anti-horde flamer. The other advantage is that if you can get Divine Guidance off (not too hard with a Simulacrum Imp. and 7+ Seraphs) being able to throw down that many hits with AP1 on 6's is killer. Now if you are going to use the Seraphim to go after only vehicles or better independant characters and MC's, two inferno pistols and one plasma on the Superior might be interesting.

About the book, I just never seem to find Seraphim fleeing from melee. They lose a lot, but their LD9 seems to carry them though. In a pinch one could probably spare a faith point to make them fearless (small squad size and 3 dice really favor this) and use the points somewhere else.

Now, keep in mind, I play a foot slogging force that goes for volume of X chromosomes to win. 33 Girls, 12 repentia, 3 penitents, 2 exorcists, assassin, Inquisitor and retinue, cannoness., 2 units of 5 and 6 seraphim (I am adjusting the list to get more seraphim, and likely pull the Repentia and Penitents for something more competitive like Death Cult Assassins and Grey Knight Terminators.) Mech Sisters probably plays rather differently than my pile of bodies.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 10/13/2007 10:24 AM
I will probably lose some meltaguns, as you say. It would be a terrible shame for a Sisters army to get owned by a horde, of all thingsl!

Transport-wise, I'm just wondering how on earth flamers and meltaguns are ever going to get used walking 6" a turn. Perhaps you have some input on this (as an opponent of Sisters, if not a user)?

Tacobake: The idea that I may not need to have my troops ride around in death traps is appealing (and will give me something to do with the SB models I'm bound to accumulate), but does it really work? I'm not exactly impressed with the prospect of a 14-body squad contributing what amounts to the firepower of two ordinary Terminators. . . . Basically, how does such an army win games? What does it do? Do enlighten me.

Purgatus is Lord only, so it's right out. To be honest, my plan for the Inquisitor is to stick him in a corner, hope he doesn't die, and not really care if he does. Since I can't afford a shooty ret for him, he's just 20 points of necessary evil as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the input, all!

The thing with the Rhinos is that a) they blow up, and when they do two or three sisters inside die and get entangled, and b) for every 58 point Rhino you can take 5 more sisters.  With the Rhinos you can possibly rapid fire on turn 1 and you can certainly rapid fire on turn 2.  Without them you walk upwards and rapid fire on turn 2 or turn 3.  Instead of shooting rhinos your opponent is shooting 11 point sisters.  More bodies are great when you are using the faith powers that need them.

It's just a question of preference, really.  I would take 1 or 2 Rhinos and at least 1 marching squad.  As far as comparing to terminators is concerned, that's not really what it's about.  2 or 3 Storm Bolters has a good 50% chance of forcing a morale check on pretty much anything, and is a perfectly acceptable use of points.  That said I would want some flamers in there somewhere too, especially since you can take so many Heavy Flamers, which are so good.  With three Excorcists you're sitting pretty as far as anti-tank is concered but a meltagun or two for insurance wouldn't hurt.

The Inquisitor is an IC.  You may as well put him in a squad and let him get his licks in, even if he's unarmed.  Who knows over time you might find something cool you start to do with him.  Word of the Emperor is 10 points and could save your butt someday.

I think you're right to shy away from Dominions.  If I was to take them I would probably give them Meltaguns w/ the Heavy Flamer Immobolator.

As far as close combat is concerned, I kind of like the Death Cult assassins over the fancy ones, altho those are good too.  It's pretty simple to hide a small base using the 12" infiltration.

Wehrkind:

Good question! Let's assume 8 live Sisters and no charging (since they'd always rather fire their bolters).

DG (VSS with no PW)
10 x 1/2 x 1/6 + 10 x 1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3 = 1 1/9 kills

Hand (VSS with no PW)
10 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 1 1/9 kills

Hand (VSS with PW)
7 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/3 + 3 x 1/2 x 2/3 = 1 7/9 kills

So basically, Hand and DG are inherently equal, and the PW increases the effectiveness of Hand by 60% (more if fewer Sister survive to swing). On balance, I think it's worth the points, and tips the balance of using an act other than Martyr to "worth a shot" from "save the Faith."



Thing is, with so many vehicles being skimmers, I'd rather hit them with melta instead. My hope is that 3 jump pack eviscerators will be sufficient to cover that end.



Too bad she makes little sense without the pipes. I'm inclined to bit order her and turn her into a BW Canoness, actually!



Well, the idea is that 5 Celestians with an Hb are only 70 points and not really worth shooting at compared to the rest of the army. They're there for the plinking, the cheap Faith, and the empty Immo that can go and shield the Rhinos and possibly draw some fire. Just an idea, mind. I know it's a less than airtight plan.



On Seraphim, I'm hedging my bets in a different way and going with one DGing flamer squad and one small-ish inferno pistol squad. Your way is better for redundancy, though. Hmm. The only problem is I then end up with the less optimal unit sizes of 7 each in order to enable effective Faith usage for both squads, and I'll burn twice the Faith points if I want to DG both flamer templates.



I wouldn't trade one Faith point for 5 normal points. I might take a risk and drop the Books, but I'd be more inclined to do it if not for the eviscerators tied up in this squad. I really, really want them to stay in combat to do the hit and run and charge again.

Thanks for the comments, and it's interesting that you play foot Sisters. I'll probably eventually get some extra normal SoB models so I have this option available.

Tacobake:

Sorry, but could you clarify "rapid fire"? Are you referring to double-tapping or single shots?



How do you work that? I thought the idea was that if you're going transports, go fully mech, so some get through.



Well, I can definitely see how it'd be good on a foot-slogging squad (4 shots at 24" while moving vs, uh, none). It just seems underwhelming for the expenditure.

Not sure I get your math, by the way. 4 SBs (and this would require the expensive VSS SB) is 2/3 of a dead MEq. That's not going to frighten anyone. It would work against GEqs, true.



Problem is there is no squad for him to join, it being a mech army. I'd rather just save his meager VPs, or spend the modest amount to get him a BoLS-pattern HB ret.

He's dropped from the current list, BTW.



I like DCs too. If only they gave Faith! If I were going to use them, I'd probably want to pair them with an Eversor. But that is another list entirely.

Yea, I don't know that I would blow points on putting Eviscerators on Sister squads. It is a little iffy to make the Vet a 50 point model. With the power weapon, I suppose my big issue is that when the squad gets assaulted, I don't really expect them to win. I mostly plan for them to hold the enemy for a bit while any nearby squads get about 12" away or so to bolter the devil out of the enemy when the Sisters run or martyr themselves. I just prefer to drop DG bolter fire into squads than spend a faith point on hoping the Sisters pimp slap the enemy to death. It is something to think about though. Of course putting just a bolter is free, and gets you extra shots, and a storm bolter costs the same and lets you shoot at 24". I have been moving slowly towards decking my Vets with bolters to support the shooting, accepting that the girls just are not rocking anything in melee.

As to "How do girls do anything walking there?" the answer is slightly different depending on the opponant. In general I keep a shooty unit and two walky units with melta/flamer. The shooty walks only far enough to be 20" from something important and then just sits and throws Str4 down range. The walky ones hide behind cover and get ~12" from important things, planning to open up on anything that comes close. The reason for this is that anything that is MEQ is going to assault you. Every MEQ fights better than you do (save maybe Necrons... don't fight them much) but shoots roughly the same, so they want to walk your way. Let them, and rain fire down on them enough so they either break, or are really weak when they get there. Only "there" is "tangled in Seraphim" who then run to let the unit get rapid fired upon to death. Basically I use them like gun line IG, only without the big guns.
Against IG and Tau, I want to melee them. The Seraphim dash forward, hiding in cover, and the girls sneak forward using as much cover as possible. The idea is to hide as much as possible as though I were an army of only HtH troops. Then pop out, rapid fire one turn, charge the second. These are very easy fights for Sisters because the awkward "only good from 12"-1"" issue goes away. That and flamers suddenly rock socks.

I don't know about how well Mech Sisters work. Everyone seems to play them except me and the only other Sisters player I know, who does sort of a light mix. I do know that foot sisters are a bit rough in missions where you just have to kill people. Missions where you have objectives favor them a bit more.

As to faith, I find it lasts me a little longer than it seems. I might be too stingy with it, but usually I end up with a few points at the end. Granted, I usually don't have any Seraphim or my Cannoness left at the end, so that's 4 points right there. I try and use faith when it is likely to be pivotal, such as DG when in rapid fire of a unit likely to assault me, or Spirit of the Martyr when stuck in melee with power weapon enemies. That's why I don't mind things like ignoring a Book on the off chance I need to bring a unit back from breaking. I figure the unit will make back the 1 Faith when it martyrs itself, and even with the Book I might have to do that.

Let me know how your list ends up doing though. There are few enough Sister players that I am somewhat starved to talk about them, you have no doubt noticed.

I don't expect them to win either, but I figure that that PW will usually get its points back and more (if it gets to strike at all) against most assaulters, so why not? Tabletop experience may change my mind, of course.

How big are your footslog squads?

As for how my list has been doing, the answer is: pretty terribly! It isn't the list's fault, though. I've never played any army other than Eldar before, so I keep doing stupid things like deploying my Exos where they need to spend two turns moving to get LoS to the enemy ("Wait, they can't just fly up over that barn? Oh *gak*") and not using cover well enough with my Rhinos. I'll get better at this, I hope.

The two mixed weapon squads are 10 girls strong, the all shooty bolter squad is 13 strong. I try to keep them cheap so I don't lose a pile of points all at once, and for the extra faith.
That is a good point about the power weapons... at only 10 points a foot slogger squad ought to be able to kill at least one marine or two guardsmen to get the points back. In the Seraphim they don't do much, since keeping them in melee for more than two turns is a death sentance.

Hehe I have pretty good luck just parking my Exorcists in cover and shooting from within, but then I have 3 Penitent engines running up field, so the heavy weapon fire gets split pretty well.

tegeus

You're right in worrying that three rhino squads won't be enough. You need a fourth to better ensure that more of your units get across the field and to provide more cover for your jump units. You can easily afford another rhino squad if you drop your second Cannoness and the Eviscerators off of your Battle Sisters.

I think you're confusing roles. You're worried about how well your Battle Sisters will do in assault. Don't. When a squad gets assaulted, you can do one of a few things:

1 - Abandon the squad. This is a perfectly viable tactic - especially against some of the more "elite" style units in the game. The squad likely won't get wiped out, and with a Book of St Lucius (either in or near the squad) they likely won't run away. The following turn you can even give the unit Inv saves if need be to keep the unit around for a while.
You can effectively tarpit some elite units for as long as you feel like. Just remember that at some point you will want the unit to break/be destroyed at some point. When this occurs, do the following: make sure your VSS is dead during casualties (you don't get her Martyr points if she's run down in a Sweeping Advance); and plan to break/be destroyed on your opponent's turn (this leaves the squad in the open to be shot).

2 - Help the squad. If it's a light unit, throw the Cannoness in with them, she'll kill enough. If it's a heavier unit, perhaps throw in some Seraphim to do some damage, and then Hit n Run away on your opponent's turn.

Tactics for Sisters are completely different from any other army in the game - don't get into thinking that they're the same as a Tactical Squad.

I just don't see the point with walking sisters unless you plan on fielding them with Storm Bolters. They'll never get anywhere important, and when they do get there they won't do a whole lot. I think you'll lose the doubletap war vs. marines due to plasma guns and accumulated HW fire. kOrks and Nids get away with walking big units because they completely own you with CC when they do get there. Sisters won't do that. Necrons have other movement options. Sisters don't.

The best reason to field Dominions is against said Orks and Nids, 3+ flamers can kill an entire 20 man unit. The individual template resolution does weaken them a lot. V4 is just the day of weak templates. Similarly, they're also really good for gunning down Wrathlords and other monstrous creatures in one round. However, 3 exorcists are likely to do that role better. I like one such unit so that my opponent doesn't think he's safe once all the Exorcists are gone or disabled.

I don't like the assassin. If you are dead set on taking it, at least scrounge up a Liber Herisus (sp) for him. Choosing table sides can be nice.

I do still like 2 cannoness missile systems. It's still scary.  I also like fielding 4+ sister units in rhinos, and as such give one or two eviscerators.  The chainsaw is still a good AV weapon, can instant kill T4 with an Act, and opponents often forget which unit is in which rhino.  One chainsaw, one or two power weapon units, and the remainder bare gives a decent array of options.  Put the bare units near good CC, PW units near normal troops where you'll likely get to swing with it 2-3 times, and the chainsaw wherever it seems most useful. 

To be honest, Seraphim bother me.  22 pts a model on a T3 chassis just looks like too good a target to me.  I've done the 'lascannon at the seraphim, lascannon at the Seraphim, LC at the Seraphim, oh an Act?  Lascannon at the other Seraphim' routine often enough to make the Sisters player pay.  And at 22 points a piece, it was worth it.