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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Recently one of the FLGS in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Cincinnati</st1:place></st1:city> has started carrying <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Flames of War[/i].  I’ve considered a historical wargame in the past, but buying online and then finding opponents always made me hesitate.  Now that I have an FLGS carrying the game, I can pick up the models as I can afford them and shouldn’t have too much trouble finding an opponent on the rare times that I get to play.  Anyway before I jump in, I thought I’d ask a few questions:

 

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Gameplay:  [/b]So how does <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Flames of War[/i] play?  I’m looking for something that’s a little more than 40K’s ‘bucketful of dice’ play style while not as complex as <em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">Warmachine[/i]’s system of combos that are too much like a CCG for my liking.<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<em style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">   [/i]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Rulebooks and other supplies:[/b]  Other than the main rulebook, templates, dice and my army what is required to play?  Are you required to purchase several supplementary rulebooks (i.e., codexes) for army composition, scenarios, etc.?<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Army Balance[/b]:  Historical accuracy aside, are the armies generally balanced against each other on a point-per-point basis?  Or do they tend to favor the “Big Three” (<st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">Germany</st1:country-region> and the <st1:place w:st="on">Soviet Union</st1:place&gt at the expense of the other armies?  I ask because while I’m mainly interested in a British army, I may field a <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> or Soviet army if it would be more competitive.<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Historical Accuracy:  [/b]How historically accurate is the game?  Do you find players tend to make historically accurate armies or tend to ignore accuracy for a competitive army?  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Periods:  [/b]Looking around the forums, I noticed a recommendation to keep to either the Early or Middle time period.  Is that still the case?  The army that seems most interesting to me right now is the British 7th Armoured Division Armoured Squadron which is a Late army.  Would that cause any problems finding an opponent?

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Tanks[/b]:  I admit to being something of a treadhead.  Are Armored Divisions balanced and competitive versus a primarily infantry force?<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

§  <strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Warplanes[/b]:  The only thing I like better than a tank is a warplane.  Are warplanes worth their points and are they balanced?<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"> [/b]

<strong style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">   [/b]

Well, that’s all the questions I can think of for now.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User



Shrewsbury, UK

Hi

I run a local gaming store where we stock and play both 40k and Flames of War - also I was a Captain in the Royal Artillery (more on that when we get to historical accuracy)

§ Gameplay; I would say that FoW is a grown up version of 40k. You will not generallyhave a bucketfull of dice but there are instances where you would benefit from having quite a few. I would say that it is not neccessarily more complex than 40k but is different to the extent that you don't get tooled up superheroes that can perform superhuman feats - this definitley changes the flavour of the game.

§ Rulebooks and other supplies: The only extras that you 'need' are the army book(s). If it is new to your store then I would suspect that they are concentrating on the Late War period for which the standard army lists book is Festung Europa. The other books are far more themed and whilst pretty good in their own right are not an absolute neccesity. Also the website is a mine of information for scenarios etc.. and that is free

§ Army Balance: This is not bad at all, although there are obviously certain things that work better than others. For example the German King Tiger is very powerful but very expensive and ultimately tends to succomb to rush of T34's or Shermans for example. The one problem with late war is that you have to make sure that you do have some mobile tank killing units otherwise it can prove difficult but we all learn as we go along.

§ Historical Accuracy: Always a tricky one this - playing a table top game is not and never will be the same as being dog tired and terrified whilst total confusion reigns around you (I know this from experience). For me it is about a feeling and if it feels right then that is fine. For me it feels right and lets face it, lots of us want to be a para or a comando so why not.

§Periods: I would suggest that this depends upon who you have around that is playing the game - as previously said, late war is the period being covered by the company and will remain the case for the next few years - if you are a new group then that may be the one to go for. Until a year ago though it was mid war and there are a lot of players that have these armies. Glad to hear that you are considering going for the 7th Armoured....

§Tanks: They can and do work but remember that Infantry once dug in are really difficult to shift and it is all about capturing and keeping objectives whilst denying your opponent the same. So probably best to have a bit of a mixture

§Warplanes: Flying artillery and especially effective against tanks - which is about right really. I am undecided on their effectiveness as they rely on a random factor just to turn up - but if they do turn up they can really swing it. Personally I prefer rocket launchers as I think that they are sexy (guess what I used to have in the army ;-) ) and I love the rule that they leave a smoke trail that artillery observers can spot from anywhere

At the end of the day I would suggest that it is a great game that should work out cheaper than 40K and has a good historical flavour.


'The purpose of life is to be happy'; the Dalai Lama  
   
Made in us
Hunter with Harpoon Laucher




Castle Clarkenstein

It's a great game, has a good 'historical feel' even when they have to compromise history for gameplay, and you will like it enough that it will suck all your money for a long time to come.

The game has good balance. Some armies are more difficult to play than others, but I haven't found no build that could approach the one sidedness that you can get in 40k. I've faced a half dozen "T-34 swarm", "sherman rush", "russian hord", or "as many tigers as I can get" style armies. My nicely balanced US infantry company does very well against them, with about a 90% win ratio vs the supposedly 'unbeatable' armies. I usually take a  2-3 platoons of infantry, 1 of engineers, 1-2 artillery batteries, 1 HMG platoon, 1 weapons platoon, and maybe my stuarts. Maybe balanced US armies are unbalanced?)

You'll start with one army, then add a bit to it, decide to get a few more options, eventually get some Germans, because everyone wants a second army, then russians will look cool when Bagration will come out, and who doesn't want a paratrooper army sometimes?


....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Sorry for not getting back to this sooner...

I would say that FoW is a grown up version of 40k. You will not generallyhave a bucketfull of dice but there are instances where you would benefit from having quite a few.

I don't have a problem with a 'bucketful of dice', it's just that I'm looking for something a little more complex than 40K, but not anywhere near the pseudo-CCG rules that Warmachine features.

I would suggest that this depends upon who you have around that is playing the game... if you are a new group then that may be the one to go for.

Unfortunately my work schedule prevents me from being a part of a group. At most it might be an occasional pick-up game or tournament as my schedule permits.

If it is new to your store then I would suspect that they are concentrating on the Late War period for which the standard army lists book is Festung Europa.

I have no idea what period they're concentrating on as I'm not a regular at that store as Flames of War is the first miniature wargame that they're really stocking (they will special order GW and PP though). Up 'til now, I'd only stop in once or twice a year just to see what's new with the store.

The other books are far more themed and whilst pretty good in their own right are not an absolute neccesity.

With me wanting to do the 7th, would the Festung Europa book be what I need or would I be better off getting the
Villers-Bocage book instead? The Panzer Lehr force looks interesting as well. Could I get by with just the Villers-Bocage book if those are just the forces I want to play to start with?

Army Balance: This is not bad at all, although there are obviously certain things that work better than others.

The main thing I'm worried about is that there is only one or two 'effective builds' that you can get in 40K. Are there any units that are totally worthless no matter how many you take?

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

Ghaz, which store are you talking about?  Yottaquest?  The good news is, if you're playing in Cincinnati, we've got a pretty cool group you could play with.

If you want to do 7th AD you'd be better off getting Villers-Bocage, although there may be some support choices that are only in Festung Europa.  I'm not sure because I currently only play Mid-War.  You would probably be okay just starting with Villers-Bocage though, if 7th AD is your thing.

We all have Mid War lists and most of us are looking at starting Late War armies, for people who don't have them already.

Let's just say that if you are used to 40k, FOW will be very easy for you to understand.  The army lists are very well balanced, and there aren't really any useless choices.  Almost all units will have a purpose that they fulfill.

It really is a great game.

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Ghaz, which store are you talking about? Yottaquest?

Yep.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

People are usually playing FOW on Friday nights.  Check out the forums at http://www.yottaquest.com

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Yep, that's how I found out they're carrying the game. Unfortunately though I work 2:30 to 11 weekdays out in Hebron which basically keeps me from being a part of any type of gaming group in Cincinnati. I haven't seen a weekend group in the Cincinnati area since Arena Games closed many moons ago.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

Most of the guys would probably be up for gaming on a Saturday or Sunday.  Just post on the forums.

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Well, I do have to get an army together first

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






No, first you go sit in on a couple of games, then you start spending scads of cash.

He's got a mind like a steel trap. By which I mean it can only hold one idea at a time;
it latches on to the first idea to come along, good or bad; and it takes strenuous effort with a crowbar to make it let go.
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Posted By fellblade on 10/31/2007 1:29 PM
No, first you go sit in on a couple of games, then you start spending scads of cash.

Why would I want to do something as silly as watching a couple of games first  I'm ready to start spending the scads of cash right now, as long as someone's willing to provide the cash in the first place!  Seriously though, I've really only sat in on one game before I decided to pick it up and that was a game of 5th edition WHFB that was my introduction to wargaming in the first place.  Perhaps if I had, I wouldn't have spent what I have on Warmachine and Hordes.  Anyway, from what I've read on the Flames of War website I think I have a good idea on how the game works and I think I'll like it.  That and a 1,500 point army for around $200 - $250 isn't that bad.

Two questions before I go.  First, what scale is appropriate for the game?  I know it's 15mm, but I was looking at a 1:72 scale European farmhouse that would make a great scenery piece.  Is 1:72 too big, too small or just about right?

Secondly, I've been looking at the history of the British 11th Armoured Division and would like to recreate it's forces.  I'm assuming that the British Armoured Squadron rules in the Festung Europa book would be the best fit, correct?

EDIT:  Looks like I'm in luck with this find as it practically builds the army for me!


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard





Sacramento, ca

i J just made the plunge and bought a box set one day with the intel book Ostfront had me hook after watching a tourament( im a tread head too but i like my grunts too). I made the fourth fallschrimjager army for my mainarmy it work s out pretty well,

for the 11th army you might want too use the new book that just came out villi bocate(sp) they have the set up for the 11th army in there,
Plus ive also done the band of brother army too 101st 506 E company army its more then just easy company but its a nice counter too my german paratroopers,
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




If you like 40k you will like fow, in the dark years of 1939-1945 there is nothing but war...

FOW does have some dumb stuff though, primarily I am thinking of the telescoping ranges. This leads to really annoy stuff, like tanks starting out of range to antitank guns (or in extreme cases artillery) moving up at full speed and shooting them before the stationry weapons can react... If you dont mind stuff like that the rules are simple, fairly intuitive to 40K players and the game is hella popular in some places.

Something to keep in mind is that almost everyone plays germans or whatever their local army is, it kind of like how everybody plays Marines in 40k... So my advice is to do something different, for your second army if nothing else.
   
 
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