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http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110103121&orignav=10

Mabye I am just spoiled by previous ork releases, but I can see I wouldnt use half those models in anything but the most casual games, and even then only once or twice to try em.  The burna boy parts will go to waste, tankbustas have the worst rules in the game (have to shoot at vehicles, regardles of range???) and everything I really want in that box comes in the battleforce, with 10 more basic boyz, at half the price.

No codex either is a big turn off.  Ah well its up for presale for whoever was interested.

I think it's a decent product for what it is- getting the first wave of new models all at once and a little early.

Mabye I am being too picky, but I am considerably worse off financially then when I was younger and all my money was spendable.  Family life really makes you think ahead and ask "my budget is limited, and I have models I want more, can I really spend that much on stuff I never plan on using?"

No you are right, I saw the ad for it in my local Gw, 24 minis plus a vehicle, most of them plastic, for £100. GW are expensive but this must be having a laugh. It didnt even mention getting the Ork codex with it either.

I also think it's important to consider who the box is designed for - pretty clearly it's not for new players. How about player's with developing armies? Errr...maybe. How about guys who have been collecting Orks for years and just want one of each new unit to finish their collection again? Yep, that sounds about right. Would come in handy too, to push normal sized armies closer to Apocalypse sized armies.

Zoned

The models in the box isnt the issue, it's the price.

Does this imply that the Trukk is gonna be $40?

Posted By Orock on 11/08/2007 10:21 AM

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99110103121&orignav=10

Mabye I am just spoiled by previous ork releases, but I can see I wouldnt use half those models in anything but the most casual games, and even then only once or twice to try em.  The burna boy parts will go to waste, tankbustas have the worst rules in the game (have to shoot at vehicles, regardles of range???) and everything I really want in that box comes in the battleforce, with 10 more basic boyz, at half the price.

No codex either is a big turn off.  Ah well its up for presale for whoever was interested.

this release is mainly for those ork players who already have tons of models. it's basically all the unreleased models up front. the releases and resculpted sprues will come in early January.

Back in the day, you actually got an army for the 100$, now you get the pleasure of being hosed without a kiss first.

I can think of better things to do with the hundred.

 

Just think, all this time and GW goes and screws the pooch intentionally being lame. Great job on such a weak armybox, can you go for 100$ for 10 terminators instead?( try puting them all in one box this time.) 1.00 for the termis, 99 for the box.

Orks... its whats for dinner.

Posted By Grot 6 on 11/08/2007 1:39 PM

Back in the day, you actually got an army for the 100$, now you get the pleasure of being hosed without a kiss first.

I can think of better things to do with the hundred.

 

Just think, all this time and GW goes and screws the pooch intentionally being lame. Great job on such a weak armybox, can you go for 100$ for 10 terminators instead?( try puting them all in one box this time.) 1.00 for the termis, 99 for the box.

Orks... its whats for dinner.

Actually the ork box would run $200 in the US not $100.  Its basically to get all the new release models in a box.   

He he, thats even better!

add in a bag of chips as well!

Terrible, not even the Codex in it. I literally saw this and said "Honey, I can tell you what's not on my XMas list this year".

$200 for that many models? No way.

I thought it would be about $175, but I havent bought in years.
I'd be willing to pay, maybe, $110 for it. US mind you, not those pricey canadian dollars!

Posted By PenguinDude on 11/08/2007 1:06 PM
The models in the box isnt the issue, it's the price.

Does this imply that the Trukk is gonna be $40?

Signs point to yes. It's bigger than a Rhino or Chimera so there's no reason why it would be cheaper.

Posted By Asmodai on 11/09/2007 7:25 AM

Posted By PenguinDude on 11/08/2007 1:06 PM
The models in the box isnt the issue, it's the price.

Does this imply that the Trukk is gonna be $40?

Signs point to yes. It's bigger than a Rhino or Chimera so there's no reason why it would be cheaper.

And this, my friends, is exactly why everyone plays space marines.  Average cost of a 1500 point space marine army: 400ish U.S.  Average price of a ork 1500-600+.  Wait a few more years, we will all be playing nidzilla with 6 carnifex, a hive flyrant, and 2 ripper swarm bases.  Everything else will be to expensive!

Oh, come on. If you pick an army that fields thrice as many models as a different army, you should expect that it's going to be three times as expensive, surely?

No, because that's not how it's been historically. yes its been MORE expensive, but not 3x for 3x. It just makes them uncollectable.

A Rhino is a 35 point tank for $45 (here anyway). The Trukk is still the better buy point for point if you look at things that way.

I don't get the complaint.

Ork Trukks going up maybe $15 (more likely $10, which would price it like a Razorback), for a total increased cost of $60-90 if you make every single Troop choice a Trukk mob, makes Orks uncollectable? If you say so.

Posted By PenguinDude on 11/09/2007 10:57 AM
No, because that's not how it's been historically. yes its been MORE expensive, but not 3x for 3x. It just makes them uncollectable.

  Oh come on.  COME!  ON! 

  There are people who play Death Korp armies.  There are people who play Witch Hunters (which are all metal).  Don't *(&%ing tell me that raising the price of a Trukk by a few bucks makes the Ork army "uncollectable [sic]."

Well, you'd hope GW prefers to have people choose to play Orks, with the cost of new molds and all.



Are you really comparing niche all-resin and mostly-metal armies to orks?

Wow, Dakka's even ANGRIER than it was when I was the little kid everyone yelled at.

Ten marines with a rhino: $70 for at the most basic outfit, 185 points. $1 = 2.6 points
Ten orks with a truck: $70 or $75 for at the most basic outfit 95 points. $ = 1.2-1.4 points

Half. Thats half the points.

Now, you'll come out and say "Well*(&#! that, it should be based on how much it cost to make!!!1!" and thats one way to look at it. Sadly, it's obvious that that is not how GW prices their models:
http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=List_Models&code=300866&orignav=10&GameNav=10
Examine the HQ and Elites section there. $15 for a commander, $15 for a chaplain... and $15 for TWO veterans? $8 for one standard bearer? Where are these numbers coming from? They come from the fact that veterans are needed in larger numbers, and buying them in boxes of ONE would be preposterous.

A second point, this one of clarification. I didn't say ork trukks are uncollectable, as you made it sound. Rather, I said making a horde army, which would field 3x the models, cost 3x the price, would make hordes uncollecatble to the common gamer.
How would charging less for these models make GW more money you ask? Here's a theory I have. Lets say a gamer is just starting, he has a nice 1500 point marine army, and is thinking of expanding. Now, he looks at prices and sees that starting an ork army would cost him the SAME price it took him to get 500 points of marines! Is he gonna go out and start a new army, spend more money on GW, or is he maybe going to flesh out his marines to 2000, maybe 2500, and call it a day?
I think the latter is much more likely. GW's biggest issue right now is making their product feel attainable, and making some armies vastly more expensive would do just the opposite.

PDude, my one and only point was this: not much has changed. The new trukk makes an Orc army $90 more expensive at most, assuming fully mech troops choices and the highest price raise that has been rumoured on this thread. The new boyz box comes out to about the same cost when you factor in heavies and PK nob. If this change is enough to make them uncollectably expensive now, they were already uncollectably expensive earlier.

Kind of looks like what an ork battle force should look like, but it is twice as expensive.

I think it will sell very well. The one thing missing that would help the sales is the actual Ork Codex. Lots of cool models coming out right before Christmas; not too shabby on their part.

Anyone remember the White Dwarf article on how to build a 1000 point Ork Army for $100.

Good Times.

I should also add that when I STARTED playing 40k, my ork breakdown was as such:

16 orks with a trukk: $50 for 174 points. 3.48 points per dollar. Vs now having 1.2-1.4

The cost of collecting my army has almost TRIPLED since I started playing, and with the increase in prices of metal command models (Warboss) it has surely more than tripled.
Whereas marines have only increased by approx. 50%.

300% vs 50%
Why even bother putting out horde armies?


Yes, I am bitter, yes I am whining about something I can't change, but you can't logically say my compliant is invalid.

Marines used to be 30 points each when I STARTED playing 40K. They go a lot less far now than they used to too.

Meh. I have an Imperial Guard army. It's pricier than Marines, but worth it. Of course I didn't take your approach and field nothing but non-upgraded infantry squads in Chimeras either.

Gretchin are $10 for 3 and 3 points each. If you field 6 units of 30 of them that's $600 and you've only filled up 570 points. Oh noes! The injustice!

Once you factor in the points costs of the Warboss, Mega-Armoured Nobz, Weirdboyz, the upgraded Nobz and weapon upgrades in Boyz squads, Killa Kans and so on, an Ork army of a given points value isn't really that much worse to collect than Imperial Guard, Skaven, Night Goblins or any other GW army where you're buying tons of product.

If you field only expensive models that don't consume many points, of course the army is more expensive. An Imperial Guard mechanized company costs about double what an Infantry Company costs. Mechanized Marines cost a lot more than footsloggers.

Well, on the subject of collecting Horde armies, as with any purchase, one simply has to measure the value of what you buy. Lets say buying Horde armies is 2x-3x more expensive. For veteran gamers, that's not really a surprise going in. We check points, count models, and compare prices. If the idea of collecting 100+ figures to play a 1000pt games is appealing to you, you're going to measure it against the cost of buying (and painting) 100+ models. To some people, it's totally worth it. Maybe the models are really nice and variable. Maybe the rules are kick ass (for the Orks, I would say both apply.) Like any purchase, it just boils down to benefit vs cost.

Also, consider the reverse, and boxes were priced maingly according to point values. In Canada, 10 Spaces Marines is $45 and would net you ~160pts. How many Orks is that? 20-25 models? Is it fair for the Space Marine player who now gets half as many cool models for the same price?

For most people, for whom time and money are of greater worth than game enjoyment, Horde armies are less appealing. I think most new players and players with time and budget concerns fall into this category. These players will find more value in Elite plastic armies like Necrons, Marines, and Chaos. People who really enjoy the game, and can find the time and funds that Horde armies require, are less restricted in army selection. Just my 2 cents.

Zoned

I really had no complaint until the ork boyz box was cut to 10 models (supposedly). They're worth less points wise, but worth MORE dollars wise? The cost of making them hasnt gone up, so why is the cost?
Unless, of course, the box is less expensive? Then maybe it'd even out.

But I'm not getting my hopes up.

I believe the explanation a mix of:

1. There's more "extras"

2. You get parts for special weapon boyz.

Something like that.