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Just curious as to how other players approach starting a new army in terms of army lists.
I mean, I would assume that eventually a lot of us end up buying more and fleshing out our armies to the point where we can play in a variety of situations: tourney's, friendly games, big crazy megabattles.

But how do you start?
When you plan an army list for a new army, do you gear the initial 1500 points that you buy to be tourney viable? Or more fluff-oriented, leaning toward friendly games? Or do you just start buying models you'd like to paint/convert and then fill in the gaps to get a legal army list?

Personally, I don't really plan on playing tournaments (only have done 2 notable tourney's since '98) so I come up with a good background for the army and try to build an army around that while also making sure it has a chance at doing alright in friendly games. And then down the road, I'll inevitably get enough extra units so I could field a variety of army lists (highly competitive, experimental, fluffy)

What about the rest of y'all?

I build an 1850 list that I like, then go from there

My timeline for building a new army from the ground up-

1.read codex
2.pick out theme that fits my prefered playstyle
3.make a list of models i need (and only what i need) to fill out an 1,850 list
4.buy only models on said list until they are all aquired, painted and assembled.

RE: Skyth....
That works.

But what do you 'like'?
Something that can win? Something with lots of dakka? or something very assaulty? Do you build a list based off models/units you like?

I make up a list I like using the models I like and not using the ones I don't.

I go from there to fill in gaps. Sometimes I end up not collecting an army because of this process (e.g. Tau - the Fire Warriors and Devilfish are awesome, but the Suits are craptastic).

After playing awhile, I'll start switching models out to make it more interesting in play - e.g. my Guard are currently being transformed from a static gunline to a mechanized force.

For me, I build armies based on looks. I think up some color schemes and get the models I really want to build & paint first, and think up a list to support them second. Even if they're not the best units around or what every other power gamer wants in their army, I'll include it anyway just because it looks cool, and I'll find a way to make it work for me

My new chaos army was a little different though, I knew I wanted to do Chaos but didn't know really where to start so I just bought the new army box set and then asked other players for ideas on what to do with it all.. so instead of 15 marines, 8 berzerkers and 5 posessed I'm turning them into 20 marines and 8 chosen, with the bitz all mixed together. And instead of 2 spawns I'm gonna turn them into 2 Obliterators using the spawn models and left over IG heavy weapons and a lot of greenstuff.

After reading the codex of the army I want to build, I start with the basics: A command and 2 troops.
Then I jump around a bit and pick one elite, one fast attack and one heavy support choice each.

Usually I play non tourney games, so I can try out different combos. Not necessarily the most killing choices, but those that sound interesting to try out. This was especially true of the older, more flavorful editions.

If I were to enter a tourney, I would probably create my army based on comments and input from this site as to what units are the hardest hitting and best able to survive.

Depending on the army, I'll write up 1-10 army lists for 1000 or 1500 points. Some armies, 1000 points is kinda boring (my Grey Knights, for example) so 1500 lets you get some more interesting things in there.

There's also a monetary consideration in there. Going from 1000-1500 points with Grey Knights is around $80, doing it with guard is closer to $150.

Beyond that, it's mostly looks first, fluff second, effectiveness as a bonus. (good sport, I don't care if I lose, as long as I have fun)

The last several armies I'd research online, look at the models I like, read the codex, and post my lists up here in the Army Lists forum and let 'em take it apart. Lately, I've put a greater emphasis on unit diversity and special scenarios (e.g. COD), so that applies less, the the principle is still sound.

Keep in mind that, when I build an army, I collect the minis piecemeal (usually from bartertown.com, or ebay). That means it can be a slow process, or it can come in droves.
It took me about 6 or 7 months to collest about 4000 points of Space Marines (ALL NIB or on sprue) and I got them for about half to 60% of actual retail.

...anyway, that being said, what I do is:

I study the codex and get an idea of 2 or 3 different style lists I'd like to play. I build (hopefully) 3 armies at 2500 points each (my group plays 2000 to 2500 points).

I go over them again and again & tweak them where necessary.

Then I make a list of everything I used in each list & combine them into one list. Obviously, anything that gets repeated on different lists doesn't get listed twice.
Now I know what models I have that can be used to field any of 3 builds I might want to play.

Then, I start collecting.

Eric

Spiff wrote:RE: Skyth....
That works.

But what do you 'like'?
Something that can win? Something with lots of dakka? or something very assaulty? Do you build a list based off models/units you like?

The way to find out what you 'like' is to playtest, a very important step I take before I collect any army. Using 'stand-in' models, or occasionally coins or pieces of paper, I play a bunch of games with a race. I quickly find that certain units and tactics become my favorite, and there begins a natural sifting process where some things sift to the top and others drop out. When I finally have a list I really enjoy playing with, then, and ONLY then, do I begin buying the models to build it.

I usually start with the Fluff, then see if I woudl enjoy the tactics of said army, then look at the models to see if I'd like painting them, then I start putting a list together i usually do one or two 1000 points, and then a 1500

I usually just shop around on Ebay, buying a lot of stuff. Once I've got about 3000pts gathered, I'll just start trying things out. I'll figure out what I like, work with that, then slowly flesh the rest of the army out. In the end, I will have gathered at least 6000pts of that army, then I'll want to start on my next one. I'm currently working on building my Guard force.

Hm I start with collecting the 2 standard units and 1 HQ choice so I can play standard missions then I go on with buying units I like to paint because they look good. When I am up to 1500 I buy 1 or 2 kick ass units for tourney games. And at 2500 points it is time to start another army ^^. I would never start with the list and then buy the models because I could never stick to it.

I first start off with a list and build the army from that list or several variants of that list.

I usually collect 2500-3000 points of an army considering any tweaks and adjustments while playing the army.

Well the most recent army I started was Necrons, as the other four I have I started all the way back at the beginning of 2nd Ed 40K, except Guard who I started when the 2nd Ed Guard Codex game out... actually... I started them when the Russ kit was first released.

Umm... anyway, where was I? Oh yes, Necrons.

My initial Strategy was "Read Necron Codex then buy 3 of everything", but as I bought everything for my Necron army off eBay and online discounters (screw GW's prices!), I couldn't quite do it that way. So I looked over the Codex, worked that, despite how good or bad the individual units were, I would get several of every unit (I like to have more than I need, so I can do any combo in any way - it's the reason I have over 50 tanks in my Guard army), but I wanted to theme it around something.

I was lucky enough to pick up the original Necron Army box, the one that had the Ltd. Ed Lord with the Staff of Light. It was, up until recently, the only way to get a Lord w/Staff of Light wthout converting one. Anyway, then I saw that Apoc was coming up, including a new Necron Lord and boxes of 2 Monoliths.

So I decided to base my army around four 'wings', each wing consisting of a Lord and a Monolith, and then stuff to go with the theme of that wing. So I have:

1. Infantry Wing = Lord w/Staff of Light + Res Orb + Lots of Warriors + Immortals + Monolith (Metallic blue colour scheme).
2. Harvester Wing = Destroyer Lord + Warriors + Destroyers + Heavy Destroyers + Monolith (Metallic red colour scheme).
3. Artificer Wing = Lord w/Staff of Light + Warriors + Scarabs + Tomb Spyders + Monolith (Standard metallic colour scheme).
4. Reaper Wing = Lord w/Watscythe + Flayed Ones + Pariahs + Wraiths + Monolith (Ceramic white colour scheme).

Then I went about getting each wing, one at a time. I have about 5000 points now, and the list of stuff above tops out at about 8000 points, but mostly what I have to get are things for the HTH wing and some more Destroyers. I haven't even tried them out yet, and how effective they doesn't bother me. I just wanted to have 4 wings, each with a unique 'type' of theme (Infantry, Harvester, Artificer, Reaper) and then a colour scheme to unify them.

It's working pretty well.



The only other army I've started recently, and by recently I mean 'EoT Campaign', was my LatD army, which is about as useless as a truck full of Squats at this points (thanks GW for taking my army away!). For that there was literally no thought beyond 'buy 5 bags of mutants and build crazy stuff'. And that's just what I did. I've never had more fun consctructing an army as I did with my LatD - it's probably why I'm so bitter about it. I did use the time well though and make a completely plastic Scavvie gang for Necromunda at the same time!

BYE

I usually tend to make a 400 point patrol list to start off with, then buy and paint those models. That way I can start playing as soon as thats done, which gives me experience with the army and lets me work out what units to use to go for bigger games. Then I'll aim for a 750 or 1000 point list and do the same, eventually upto 1500, 2000 or more.

I'm usually one of those people that buys loads of models, never paints them and gets bored though, so this way seems to suit me better. lol.

Craig

Spiff wrote:Just curious as to how other players approach starting a new army in terms of army lists.
I mean, I would assume that eventually a lot of us end up buying more and fleshing out our armies to the point where we can play in a variety of situations: tourney's, friendly games, big crazy megabattles.

But how do you start?
When you plan an army list for a new army, do you gear the initial 1500 points that you buy to be tourney viable? Or more fluff-oriented, leaning toward friendly games? Or do you just start buying models you'd like to paint/convert and then fill in the gaps to get a legal army list?

Personally, I don't really plan on playing tournaments (only have done 2 notable tourney's since '98) so I come up with a good background for the army and try to build an army around that while also making sure it has a chance at doing alright in friendly games. And then down the road, I'll inevitably get enough extra units so I could field a variety of army lists (highly competitive, experimental, fluffy)

What about the rest of y'all?

IRC for 40K and Fantasy

1. Bought Codex.
2. Looked at models and rules. Compared price and points values. Looked for obvious mismatches (either low points high cost , or high points low cost). Compared my possible model list with what I knew about the game. Altered my planned purchases based on the comparitive list.
3. Tried playing at about the 1000 point level.
4. Confirmed opinions about units and modified list based on those confirmations.
5. Bulked up to 1700.

For LotR
1. Bought minatures
2. Played games.

For Confrontation
1. Looked at the model range for the army
2. added up points/dollars
3. Bought entire 400 point army that day.

When I first started 40k and after buying the starter set I moved onto the Battleforce, which was a good idea.

After that though....
*Ok, so and so said I needed this box, that other box, and.... say... that's a pretty cool model. Hmm... it's a space marine model, so I must be able to use it. I shall buy it. *Few days later* Ohh!! Scouts. I shall get them, and buy more so that shipping seems less in my head. Ok, well I'll buy an attack bike as well.*

Eventually I got around to making lists and learning that the CCW Scouts I bought, weren't really worth it. I've learned since then and have started guard as well.

Guard:
Hmmm... pick up codex. Ok so I need troops... and lots of troops. Heavy weapons, leman russ tanks, and a few officers. A chimera would be good, and it also comes with troops.

That's my collection of guard. I've gotten smarter about buying models for a new army.

I tend to buy one unit of every type that I like the models for, and play around with various configurations. Then I'll get some duplicates of stuff that I thought worked well. (This does tend to lead to having a bunch of models that don't get played often, but it's ok cause they were fun to paint. It also means some stuff won't be in my lists, regardless of how well they work, unless I convert them up. I hate guardian helmets, for instance. No pointy-heads for me.

Wow I think I am very different. I'll read through a codex first to learn the tricks in case I have to face that army and over a few days I might put together some combinations in my head or not. Then, occasionally, I might put some thoughts together for a strong list. Something that matches the archtypes, the tried and true cores of successful armies. Sometimes a powerful combo or varient will emerge to trump the archtypes and my interest will be peaked.

I'll begin to write lists around the idea, write lists, write lists, write lists and finally settle on one list I like very much. Then I will wait. I will wait and think about the list some more. Almost all the time I will go back and revise the list some more until I think I have it just right. Then I call up the warstore and order the whole list at once (1850pts).

When it shows up I assemble everything quickly and usually prime it. Then I wait some more and decide on a color scheme. During this time I will play the army in some pick up games and the fine tuning begins. I'll buy a unit or two from retail stores to strengthen the list and make it more powerful, then I will buy a unit (or fig) or two which might look cool or might serve a purpose in pick-up games. Now the army is approaching 2500pts and I have a hard as nails 1850 core army and ~650pts in fluff pieces to change out with the army. The whole process usually takes about a year.

I will say the Nidzilla list was not done this way. I read the codex, saw the varient and bought the models asap. I had the thing painted and playable in less than a month. Record time and I've never done that before or since. The list was powerful, but not as refined as later lists would become. I had a close combat fex in there at first for Pete's sake.

I generally pick a mini from my collection of random stuff and paint it as a test. If it's ok I will paint the rest of the squad and have 1 troops choice. Then I do an HQ and then a vehicle, and repeat.

I buy something new and then try it in a game.

It probably works better with Warmachine and Hordes since you don't have
unit options to worry about converting...

Intresting and varied ideas here. Cool post, BTW.
My thoughts:
Are you a modeler/painter or just a gaming whore? I don't know you or most of the people previously posted but I would guess that that guys like HBMC (and myself) are gaming whores while guys like "jazz is for losers" is a painter. (this is just snap judgments, fellows, so take it easy. Not trying to flame anyone).
If you are a GW you will want to play straight away and on the large battle side. Resist this temptation before you drop serious coin on an army. I think darthdiggler matches my style. It takes a long time to find the right fit for you.
I watched the game for years before I played. I went with the cheap, low model count, hard as nails, forgiving and customizable space marines as my first army. It was 3rd edition and the poster boys were the Crimson Fists. I basically selected an army I felt "looked cool" and would be the cheapest to start so I could build a playable force quickly (~1500 points). I really liked the tanks and attack bikes so I bought lots of them. I also fell in "model love" with the heavy bolter tactical marine and bought several of them and never fielded a tactical squad without one (something I still do to this day). I was playing a lot of orks so I went with tons of (razorbacks with heavy bolters, attack bikes with heavy bolters, scouts with heavy bolters, tactical squads with heavy bolters, basically anything with heavy bolters). I made silly, fluffy vows: never use ordnance, never use a lascannon in a tactical squad (only mount them on tanks), no jump packs (my HQ's were always on bikes). Then the land raider model came out and I two-timed fresh, new "model love". If I was playing a game, I had a Land raider and heavy bolters on everything. I made another vow: if it didn't have a heavy bolter on it, I will not include it in my list. I'm rambling now so back to the point.

If you want to start from scratch, WRITE a 2000 point list. You should always be ready to whore yourself! Then break it down to a core 1000 point list for a foundation and two 500 point "add-ons". Then, create an additional 250 point unit(s) so you will be tourney ready (1000 point core+one of the 500 point add-ons+250 point tourney power unit). First, build the core first so you can start playing straight away ($). Next, build one of the 500 point add-ons ($). Then, build the second 500 point add-on ($). Finally, build the 250 point power unit(s).

WEll with the guard, since they were my first army I totally bought models based on what they looked like. I did not even buy the codex until about a month later. That is not a very efficient way. I was totally planning on NOT playing until i met a gaming group and then went out and bought a whole bunch of stuff.

I would say think of what you would like to do with an army. Then go out and make it happen. Example, with orks I want a horde of melee guys. So that is what I have. WIth guard, I try all sorts of different things and right now I am begining to conclude that static defense is thier best/most effective style. Tau, which I plan to start eventually I want to be a mobile, shooty army, vs, the immobile shooty guard.

Marines on the other hand, to me seem like they have no purpose becuase of the fact that they are good at everything, I have had trouble coming up with a good purpose for them. So I dont think that I will ever own a marine army.

So in short, it all depends of what you want to do. SOme things of course work better than others. Like hand to hand tau would probably not be a good idea.

Long before Cadian plastics came out, I still wanted an IG Army and was keeping an eye out for Valhallans. I never picked up more than a couple blisters of Valhallans but I started buying Leman Russes and chimeras before I had any plan for a list. I knew I was eventually get an IG army and that I would want tanks. The only problem was that I put on a couple sponsons that I now slightly regret.
But the Guard are pretty forgiving in that respect. You can't go wrong if you just go out and buy a bunch of boxes of Cadians and tanks.

Browse Codex until I am certain I want to do the army.

Buy Codex.

Build 1700-1850 pt list that is different than the standard, and netagamed to kill the locals. Example would be an Eldar Jetbike/mech force to deal with the assault-happy local armies. I like to build a theoryhammer list that has one significant competative advantage, often at the cost of a large weakness.

Buy a block of 750 pts or so, to begin testing, building in chunks of 500 or so. Idea is to refine the army so when I reach 1850 it is exactly what I want.

Usually I don't expand past this point. Other players do not change their lists in my area, and until they do I view my list as optimized. I would buy more to adjust to their styles, but rarely for modeling/collecting.

I envision a playstyle first, and then try to find an army that fits that. This is usual in a direct response to something I don't like about the current army I'm playing. Then it's usually down to two or three armies that could play that way, at which point I go on a theme or by models.

Well, there are several factors that go into my inital thought of starting an army:

1) Do I like the theme and the background?
2) Do I like how they play?
3) What are others opinions on it?
4) How far can I take this army?

I generally like to go for builds or armies that people generally consider weak or underpowered, and try to make them work, which really informs my current decision to do a Dark Angels army. For my, I generally dislike buying models I can't get regular use out of, so I rarely build an army just to collect the models. I am pretty satisfied if I can get a couple of good tournament builds and I usually don't take an army past 2500 - 3000 points (though APOC may change my mind about that). At that point I sell the army and go onto the next project so I can play the maximum different types of armies and the hobby is more fresh to me.

After I have settled on an army I build an RTT list and heavly playtest it, and as I am buying the models to fill out the list I am still playtesting it making minor changes along the way. That way I can participate in a tournament with the army as soon as possible. After that I may buy the odd unit here or there. Maybe build a cities of death version of the list.

My Dark Angels however will be a different story as I plan to build three distinct lists out of the book and be able to combine them for APOC. So that may be my first real collector army that may be a long time before I sell them.