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One thing I've started to experiment with and have a lot of success with is dipping my models. Going with Orks and getting a horde ready for tournament play, this has been critical to me not only getting the force painted, but painted and looking good enough to get me the decent painting score I need to place tourney wise.

And while a lot of people I've shown my work to locally have been interested in the results and I've gotten a lot of "WOW's" when showing the before and after pics of "Pre-Dip, Dipped, and then Dipped+Matte Spray Finish", I've gotten some hostility from some people as well.

Some people really look down on the technique from what I can tell, and I've noticed it in some of the "dipping" threads I've researched online when working out how to actually go about doing it for my own models.

I joked with a friend of mine about this and we came up with the idea that "Dipping is like Power Gaming for Painting". It gets you a set of models that "look really good" but don't exactly require a whole lot of skill or time to achieve the result. I know for me, this is appealing since I primarily like to play, and while "painting" is enjoyable at some level, "painting an entire army" really isn't for me. Especially when I want to get something done in time to use at an event.

I was wondering if other people got the same kind of vibes from certain people on the topic.

Yeah, normally I'd say 'screw them' but as an example of Lemmingville....some twit dipped all his grots, put a light on a leman russ, and got two awards for painting at LA.

I'd laugh, but it was pathetic.

Recognizing a no-skill paintjob is one thing, rewarding it is another.

I understand why highly skilled and dedicated competition painters would be against dipping if it lets armies win competitions without the effort. OTOH who cares if it just lets the army look good quickly? I am surprised that a dipped army would win over really well done properly painted armies.

I've noticed people dissing dipping here and there too. It's dumb. I have a dipped tomb kings army. Well, mostly dipped. I painted the bigger stuff and characters normally... but there was no way I was gonna paint all those skeletons by hand because it woulda been hella tedious. Dipping allowed me to get really great looking infantry in a lot less time. I still put a lot of time into painting the different colored areas pre-dip and working on the bases and all that stuff.

For me personally I don't care how someone paints, if an army looks good, it looks good, and that's that. I'd glady vote for a dipped army at a tourney if it looks better than the rest. If they guy had no painting skills, even his dipped stuff would still look like crap. So, who cares if the guy took a shortcut.. if his stuff still looks nicer than yours, paint better next time :p

I don't think anything I've dipped is capable of winning anything. Here's what I've gotten results wise from my test Slugga Boy which was taken "as-is" from being one of the first models I ever painted years ago, to after the dip, and then after getting a matte finish:

Pre-Dipped + Dipped Example
Dipped after Matte Finish

That said, they look pretty damn good, especially from 5 feet away when playing.

I dunno, one thing I think that I can understand people being a little pissy about is that having a dipped army can nab you a decent painting score at a tournament, which is pretty substantial in terms of placing, where as others with a normal "not so well painted" army will suffer, but the guy who dipped is getting ahead without putting in a lot of effort or isn't even more skilled.

Though to be honest, if the idea is about making sure nice armies show up to a tournament, isn't dipping a way for people, like me, who aren't so good at painting to at least show up and not get blasted because I can't paint well?

Stelek:

Yeah, normally I'd say 'screw them' but as an example of Lemmingville....some twit dipped all his grots, put a light on a leman russ, and got two awards for painting at LA.

I agree that it shouldn't get him an award, but I'm not sure why it makes him a twit. What's wrong with dipping grots and putting a light on a Russ? The fault lies with the organiser for giving the award, not the player for doing it.

I did a search in the painting forum, but came up empty. What is dipping exactly?

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Stelek:

Yeah, normally I'd say 'screw them' but as an example of Lemmingville....some twit dipped all his grots, put a light on a leman russ, and got two awards for painting at LA.

I agree that it shouldn't get him an award, but I'm not sure why it makes him a twit. What's wrong with dipping grots and putting a light on a Russ? The fault lies with the organiser for giving the award, not the player for doing it.

To be fair, why shouldn't he get an award?

If his entry looks better than the rest entered in the competition, does it matter what techniques he used to get the thing to look as good as it did? Yes I can understand the notion that you want to reward hard work, but at the same time it does come down to how good a mini looks as the point of the competition.

Vodoo Boyz: The before and after pics are absolutely amazing. Its astounding what a huge difference dipping makes to an otherwise lacklustre (but perfectly acceptable gaming standard) miniature. The dip really makes the details pop. While I think there may be sour grapes from the traditional painters, IMHO, the GW paint score is a way of rewarding modellers for building and bringing finished and good looking armies... since everyone agrees playing the primed horde sucks. So in this vein, I certainly think a dipped army qualifies. I think that those who complain should find another way to catch the judge's attention.

The end result is all that matters. Dipping is no different than drybrushing, inking, using decals, airbrushing, or hell even just using a brush at all. We are given a task: take little plastic things and make them look good. You aren't going to get there without using a lot of specialized tools and techniques, and drawing a line in the sand at any point and saying "Anything beyond this is lame!" is delusional.

A friend and I dipped our LotR armies (4 of them - we loaned two to friends) and 2000 points of Space Wolves (except the vehicles) for Adepticon last year and they turned out really good. If you do it right (and we learned that hitting the high points with some thinner worked well, and I think this year we're going to try thinning the stain before dipping to see what it does), it looks great. It's really not much different than hitting the model with a black ink all over. Also, you can go back over the dip and add highlights if you want, and it can work well. It's a technique available to everyone, no one should look down on it. It'd be like a Golden Daemon winner who paints on their highlights (in multiple layers, with glazes, and taking 10 hours a fig) looking down on someone using inks and drybrushes. It's a technique, and if done right, can look great, and if done poorly, can look horrible.

I never did go back and add decals to my space wolves, but if I do that, they'll stand up well to anyone's army. Not a winning army, but a solid tabletop quality. Maybe highlight the termies and heroes to help them stand out more.

For the last post, "dipping" consists of painting the base colors on a model, then dipping them in wood stain (usually minwax walnut or their black). The stain runs into the crevices for shading, but since it's pretty thick (or viscous) compared to inks, it behaves a little different. Generally, you flick the excess off by shaking the model, and using thinner to clean off big flat surfaces (like SM shoulder pads and the top of termies) tends to help.

Anyone who's been painting for a few months should be able to recognize a dipped fig. It does not come anywhere near a nicely blended/highlighted fig so if a fig wins with dipping either everyone else's paintjob sucked or the judge was an idiot.

Dipping ROX!

LONG LIVE THE DIP!

stonefox wrote:Anyone who's been painting for a few months should be able to recognize a dipped fig. It does not come anywhere near a nicely blended/highlighted fig so if a fig wins with dipping either everyone else's paintjob sucked or the judge was an idiot.

Maybe an individual figure. But, quantity has an appeal all its own. 150 dipped boyz like Voodoo's would look amazing as an army, even if none of them, on their own, would win awards. What's going to look better as an army, 150 dipped boyz, or six carnifexes and two tyrants that were hand painted?

Orock wrote:I did a search in the painting forum, but came up empty. What is dipping exactly?

I too would like to know. I'm guessing that it involves painting very basic collors on the model and then dipping them in black ink (or similar watered down black paint), but that's just a guess based on the name and the pictures Voodoo put up.

Orock wrote:I did a search in the painting forum, but came up empty. What is dipping exactly?

Dipping is when you apply a stained varnish to a figure that you have done a basic paint job on. It runs into the crevices and creates automatic shading.

See a nice tutorial and discussion about dipping here...

http://fanaticus.org/DBA/guides/Painting/paintingstains.html

Uhhhh. The point of painting the figs is to make them look good. If dipping makes the figs look good, then more power to ya.

Honestly, there are some armies that dipping really works well with some armies. LATD, nurgle, Orks and Tyranids really look great dipped.

ender502

Let's face it, a dipped single figure is never going to win a Golden Demon award but if dipping allows players to play with good looking armies quickly and easily what is the harm of it?

Painting prizes get given to armies that the owner bought painted. Isn't that a similar kind of short cut?

ender502 wrote:Uhhhh. The point of painting the figs is to make them look good. If dipping makes the figs look good, then more power to ya.

Honestly, there are some armies that dipping really works well with some armies. LATD, nurgle, Orks and Tyranids really look great dipped.

ender502

I knew I shouldn't have played Tau! But yeah they look great since they have crevices. The thing is dipping in that case is not much different than putting on several washes, which is another no-brainer method. Dipping doesn't really work on large flat surfaces anyway so it's not like anyone really gets away with anything aside from saving some time with washes.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:Stelek:

Yeah, normally I'd say 'screw them' but as an example of Lemmingville....some twit dipped all his grots, put a light on a leman russ, and got two awards for painting at LA.

I agree that it shouldn't get him an award, but I'm not sure why it makes him a twit. What's wrong with dipping grots and putting a light on a Russ? The fault lies with the organiser for giving the award, not the player for doing it.

Well, one was rewarded by the players...

*rolls eyes*

Getting two awards and being so skippy about his awesome paint job on a bunch of grots...which wasn't awesome under the dip, is what makes him a silly twit.

Voodoo Boyz

Don't stop dipping! That miniature looks like a real work or art, and you know what...it is! When and who decided that dipping is a short cut?!? Short cut to what?

People need to wake up, calling dipping a short cut is like calling someone a lazy ass for using a JCB when they "should" be using a shovel....

Dipping is a technique, just like drybrushing, just like inking, just like NMM....its a technique! nothing more, nothing less. If another artist wants to run you down cause you use dipping, call him a cheater for using a paint brush.....cause the real challenge is to use a felt tip pen!

Wow, I hadn't realized that dipping could get nice results like that Voodoo. I was really worried about starting an ork army for fear of hitting that balance between "looks good/shoot me" I try to achieve when painting, but I will definitely be trying the dip with some boyz when the time comes! Would you be so kind as to PM me what your technique and product was?

I have my nids and lizard orks all planned for dipping.

I wish it worked well on my other mass of not-done figs. lol

I remember there was a ton of venom aimed at a painting studio when they were accused of dipping models instead of layering them, IIRC. In the end, there seems to be a certain distaste among some gamers of "passing" dipped models as layered.


As a wash and dry-brusher myself, I really don't care one way or the other. I prefer to paint in squad sized units, so I hand wash my models, but I can see how the dip would rock hard for assembly line painting.

Time does not equal quality. Hand made amish hardwood furniture isn't better or more valuable because they spent more time than IKEA when making a chair; it's better because it's looks better, lasts longer, and is stronger.

If a dipped model looks better than a layered model, than the layer painter needs to shape up. And yes, I know dipped armies have won best painted. I've been to dozens of tournaments, and while i've never seen a badly painted army win best painted, I've seen judges (and players) base their decisions on novelty, conversion, color choice, neatness, etc. Sometimes, a dipped horde just is more visually dramatic than a painstakingly layerd and black lined Grey Knights army.

Miniwax Polyshades Antique Walnut is what I'm using for the next test and is what I'm using for all the rest of the Boyz. I used another brand I was able to get a small can of for the test model posted. The Miniwax is available in a bigger can and is recommended by most people I saw do tutorials.

Basically go to your local hardware shop (Lowes, Home Depot, Mom & Pop, whatever), and look for a Single Step Stain + Polyurethane. They come in a ton of colors from blacks, reds, to classic style wood browns and a ton of shades in between.

Process? Paint Ork model to the standard seen in my first linked pic. Dip Ork to feet in stain. Quickly remove Ork, hold upside down in deep box with the lid mostly closed and shake the thing like hell.

Wearing gloves is recommended, as is doing it in a ventilated area. I kept a small brush with water nearby to get some of the dip off of any major areas I saw it that I didn't want it that wouldn't come off with the shaking. I didn't have to do that for this guy, but it was recommended in all the tutorials I read.

For the matte finish the spray you use is crucial. Many finish sprays will yellow, or at least some will. Testors is a brand I know doesn't yellow. I couldn't find any but I found a spray bottle that explicitly said "Non Yellowing" on the front at the local craft store. I think it was Krylon, but I'm not 100% sure.

Bout the biggest thing I can tell you is find a stain + poly that you think you'll like the color of in there for highlights and then buy a small amount and test. Also test your finish on a single model first to see if you like it. Always test first before doing batches.

I've still got a while to go before I do my dipping in a big batch. I may look into gluing dowels on the bottom of the bases to maybe use a drill to spin the dip off the models quickly, at least that's what Rafi over on the Waaagh did for some of his stuff. I can imagine dipping 100+ models will eventually make my arm sore as hell from shaking them all off.

Delephont wrote:Voodoo Boyz

Don't stop dipping! That miniature looks like a real work or art, and you know what...it is! When and who decided that dipping is a short cut?!? Short cut to what?

People need to wake up, calling dipping a short cut is like calling someone a lazy ass for using a JCB when they "should" be using a shovel....

Dipping is a technique, just like drybrushing, just like inking, just like NMM....its a technique! nothing more, nothing less. If another artist wants to run you down cause you use dipping, call him a cheater for using a paint brush.....cause the real challenge is to use a felt tip pen!

Totaly agree with you. Dip is just a common hobby product like a ink or paint, just name it! Just ignore people that says dip is cheeting...

what I did for my tomb kings is I sprayed them with white primer, then bleached bone spray (dunno if they still make that though). Then I painted plain ole shining gold, silver and red parts where needed. I also did the bases with spackle instead of regular flock to get a cracked earth kind of look, so I had to wait for that to dry, then seal it with some white glue, then paint it.. then I dipped the whole model and shook it off.. so that I could hold onto the base as I shook it. When i did the horsemen, I did the horses normal and the riders separately, I glued their crotches to the tops of long stemmed flying bases, then when it was all dry I popped em off the base and glued them to the horse, the little spot that was glued isn't visible because that's where you glue it to the horse. I think I used the same stain color too. And the testors flat varnish worked real well too.

Dipping, especially the paint-on dip technique (same idea, but you brush on your dip, rather than dip and swing to get excess off), is not all that removed from the 'sludge wash' technique used by the Brushthralls to weather 'jacks or scale modelers. If such techniques can be used for weathering 1/35 scale tanks or 1/72 scale aircraft and win awards, why not gaming figures? Looks good is looks good.

Oh come on, Stelek. Even if he did use a shortcut, his army looked good enough (which, as people have pointed out, is what really matters) to be considered the best by both the organiser and the players. Unless by "being skippy" you're talking about a seriously asinine level of bragging (*cough*) I think he's entitled to be proud of his achievement.

Nah it was the winning two awards and him grinning like a cheshire cat that was silly.