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Cool conversion on the tank.
Your fluff also totally fits space marines. A force that strikes fast and hard. Like the Blitzkrieg.

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Heh - the Luger bolt pistol conversions crack me up.

yes, dual wielding lugers = win

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I really like the direction you're taking the Dreadnought in, it looks really sharp. My advice would be to work on the head a little bit, it looks more Tau/Eldar and less Mariney. Also give the lascannon a little more love, maybe bulk out the barrel some more with plasticard or even some Necron glow tubes for that SONARDOOMCANNON look. Also, thicken the legs up, that thing looks so frail, doesn't fit in with the Marines at all.

You've got some good ideas that turn out really striking. Unfortunately, you also have some ideas that lose quite a bit in their execution.

The lines/hoses added to weapons and helmets are great. your color choice is strong. And your theme and vehicle painting are goo.

However, the insignia could really use some help. My suggestion is that some transfers could really save you time and make them look much sharper. Even using the transfers as guides to paint over is good. Thing is the wehrmacht symbol is very recognizable and very reliant on straight lines, so deviating while painting it makes it look pretty shoddy.

And the dread conversion... gotta say that is not my favorite at all. Maybe keep the torso, but the arms and legs are both way too Eldar and not at all fitting with Imperial tech.

Kudos for having a concept and exploring it, though.

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Looking good. The only suggestion Iwould make on the modelling would b eto square off the knees of the dread. Make it a bit more mecha and it will look less eldar while keeping the overall graceful form.

ender502

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wow, your vindicators rock! It very much fits the theme of your army too, I can just imagine a group of your tank destroyers laying an ambush for enemy armor

great minis. Have you considered a more adeptus mechanicus slant with your infantry? Maybe including techmarines or using doctrines.

ah ic I re-read your fluff. very well thought-through.

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That jagdpredator is really sweet. Nice conversion, and you could definitely justify using them as destroyer tank hunters in Apocalypse.

your vindicators definately have a more 'battletech' sci-fi feel to them. very cool.

QUOTE: IIIINote the medal at his collar, as a plan on giving the squad Terminator Honours, as they are intended as a pure close combat unit to support the command squad in larger games. IIII


why not make the terminator honours the ''ritterkreuz''??

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oh great nazi marines

seriously you're not even emulating the actual color schemes used in the second world war, you're just extrapolating SS imagery onto Marines

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open_sketchbook wrote:I knew this would come up eventually.

The Death Korp of Krieg are insanely exaggerated WW1 German soldiers. So, I did exaggerated WW2 German soldiers for the space marine equivalent. There is no SS or Nazi imagery on any of the soldiers, just the simple cross that even the modern German army uses. Yes, I'm trying to invoke a sense of WW2 in these guys, oh noes. Sorry I can do more politically correct fascists from the far flung future where even the good guys murder billions of their own on the slightest pretext and where angry Gods call for the extermination of all of Humanity. Next time I'll play Ultramarines like everyone else.

Heh, this is why people who do these things need to take a few courses about nazi history.

first off, the color scheme you are using - the red and black, combined with the balkenkreuz is pretty much the SS dress uniform sans the swastika with the Balken in it's place.

secondly the Balkenkreuz used by the Bundeswehr these days is more akin to it's first world war incarnation. The square shaped balkenkreuz is very much accsoiated with Nazi Germany.

In regards to Krieg = ww1 germany, well actually no. The Krieg line was designed by taking ad hoc elements from pretty much all the big players of the first world war, an example of such is the crest on the helmet being used by the French.

Also, historically, Germany in the first world war wasn't anything like it's incarnation in the second world war, theres really a very large debate amongst historians about who was the real 'bad guy' of the first world war. There is no such debate about the second.

The fact your trying to compare the Imperium - a FANTASY science fiction construct with a society which deliberately murdered over 20 million people and can't see any issue really shows how ignorant of history and how little you have had to deal with real loss.

I'm trying, in case your wondering, to be ironic. While the look invokes what we associate with ultimate evil, the Kriegmarines show both individuality and humanity in having their names on their base and "regular human" nose art on their tanks. Their fluff further reinforces this point. They are intended, even if it's just in my head, to mock the concept of perception as it relates to the Warhammer 40,000 universe, how images we associate with Good get corrupted.

Hey, theres plenty of people who try to justify their stuff too, they're called apologists.

also remind me when were the nazis good and suddenly 'corrupted' ?

On top of that, I stand by the idea we can never claim to have beaten something until we can mock it openly. If we are still scared of the 1940s National Socialism movement in Germany, then I'd recommend with re-invade and make sure we got it this time!

Hey guys, check out my swastika Tshirt, its totally ironic and if you don't agree the terrorists have already won.

Theres such a thing as good taste and cultural sensitivity

Hey, theres plenty of people who try to justify their stuff too, they're called apologists.

Hey, don't drag me into this!

+++Edit+++
D'oh, that joke doesn't work when I'm using the Cpl_Saint name, does it? :S

What are the point of these historical/moralistic debates?

If you see something you don't agree with then go on another threat. Its pointless to argue over this kind of thing as people will always have an interest in certain historical societies and reflect it in their work. I'm not supporting it or opposing it, otherwise what would be the point of historical gaming which I enjoy!?

Craig

No I think it's pretty much that some people like to openly make nazi, soviet, or whatever armies but try to claim they aren't. Sure, I personally might not play against those guys, but make the paintjob good and go for it.

But at the end of the day, at least be man enough to actually have the balls to say you're making an army that may be offensive to some people. Don't try to dance around it and give pitiful details as to why your army "isn't really" nazi or soviet or hell even the U.S. in Iraq (but I'll stay out of that debate ).

Take the crosses off and I would be ok. They're clearly neoNazi and remind me of the badges I've seen sported by fat balding neanderthals who pass themselves off as humans at Klan marches. Seriously.

Death_Master wrote:What are the point of these historical/moralistic debates?

If you see something you don't agree with then go on another threat. Its pointless to argue over this kind of thing as people will always have an interest in certain historical societies and reflect it in their work. I'm not supporting it or opposing it, otherwise what would be the point of historical gaming which I enjoy!?

Craig

because historical war gaming is historical? This is just transplanting all the worst social images of the german military to another medium for the coolness factor.

to put it less eloquently, I don't have a problem with toilets, but I do have the problem with the crap they are filled with.

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open_sketchbook wrote:I've decided on a compromise. On the one hand, I see where HF and others are coming from, on the other, I like the dramatic look and feel of the red, black, and white colour scheme. I hadn't even thought of the clan symbol bit, too, so that's influencing the decision.

Basically, I'm going to change the army logo, likely to one of the symbols used by a panzergrenadier or mechanized infantry division. I'm going to retain the "iron cross" look on the collars of the officers, because that, I feel, is more recognizable simply as a medal, but that actual symbol and shapes on the shoulder-pads and tanks and whatnot is going to change.

Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still slowed. So I'm going to stop arguing.

the iron cross was discontinued after WW2 due to it being too recognizable as a symbol of nazi culture despite it's origins being in frederiskan Prussia

Why not use the Maltese Cross (or whatever the templar minis have). Thats an accepted 40K icon at this point and fits what you're trying to do.

I say you should work more on thinning those paints and learning to use a lighter drybrush first.