Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

first of all: yes, I'm a sucker for B-movies.

now on topic. with all the current talk we have here auf the lost adn the damned, I thought it would be nice opportunity to create a new LatD list. you know, all of us pissed-off players who lreally liked that particular army. bring you ideas together and we'll work on it.

I'll start with a few suggestions:

1. do they really need Chaos Space Marines? since allies and all the stuff are gone to apocalypse land anyway, I think we should use the opportuniy to make LatD list which wokrs without big evil supermen. well, evil mutated supermen are okay, but maybe without the powerarmor

2. which zombies should be used? there are either those in the old LatD 'Dex or the ones published for apocalypse, which I personally prefer. becaue it would be really fun to use those against guard or eldar. seems also more interesting in smaller games.

3. we definetly need some sort of evil mutated dogs. I won't accept a LatD army without them.

4. civil vehicles, like limousines, fuel trucks and the like.

5. some sort of worker sqads with really bad stats. like gretchins.


so, these are my thoughts for the evening. shall the armies of the lost adn the Damned rise again from the botomless pit jervis threw them in.

and of course, kick a few squats in the face on their way up

Chaos Space marines should have a role similar to the role Commissars have in the Imperial Guard list.

Anung Un Rama wrote:first of all: yes, I'm a sucker for B-movies.

now on topic. with all the current talk we have here auf the lost adn the damned, I thought it would be nice opportunity to create a new LatD list. you know, all of us pissed-off players who lreally liked that particular army. bring you ideas together and we'll work on it.

I'll start with a few suggestions:

1. do they really need Chaos Space Marines? since allies and all the stuff are gone to apocalypse land anyway, I think we should use the opportuniy to make LatD list which wokrs without big evil supermen. well, evil mutated supermen are okay, but maybe without the powerarmor

2. which zombies should be used? there are either those in the old LatD 'Dex or the ones published for apocalypse, which I personally prefer. becaue it would be really fun to use those against guard or eldar. seems also more interesting in smaller games.

3. we definetly need some sort of evil mutated dogs. I won't accept a LatD army without them.

4. civil vehicles, like limousines, fuel trucks and the like.

5. some sort of worker sqads with really bad stats. like gretchins.


so, these are my thoughts for the evening. shall the armies of the lost adn the Damned rise again from the botomless pit jervis threw them in.

and of course, kick a few squats in the face on their way up

Wanna bet im more of a sucker for B movies?

1. YES! I mean come on SM's are sposed to be very uncommen, and as such CM can only be even LESS commen.

2. Zombie zombies? Look towards things that might inspire; Doom Fatty zombie etc, fast zombies are always cool; don't know how that would translate.

3. Heh, yea.

4. Err why? I guess... But I mean These are Gaurd, I guess there could be an entry for civilian transport or the like that would be weak as heck but cheap. Other then that I don't think its intirely nessesary, maybe some thing along the lines as the defiler or such.

5. ...Zombies? Like they repair stuff or what? Sorta cool idea of horde repairers but if their just functioning as meat shields then you have zombies for that.

Some other things that might be intresting would be IMO maybe some sorta undead summon thingie, kill some people and get some zombies would need a priest or something... though I could see how that could be broken.

5. ...Zombies? Like they repair stuff or what?

No, zombies cannot do this. I would like to see a rule where all units count as BS 2 against zombies unless they roll a 4+, and the first time they roll a 4+ allows them to use regular BS the rest of the game. The reasoning behind this is zombie fluff. When armies first encounter zombies THEY NEVER SEEM TO SHOOT FOR THE HEAD! Until some bum finally hits one in the head. I think the average guardsmen would keep shooting at the chests, legs, etc. Idk, just a thought.

Here is my proposed Lost and the Damned List based on the following assumptions:

1. Lost ant the Damned Represent an uprising by a local population, meaning that CSM will be rare.

2. Lost and the Damned will follow the lead of the current CSM codex and new codex structure.

3. The Lost and the Damned are more similar to IG then other armies, but whereas IG is shooty, LatD are assaulty.

4. Compatibility with 5th Edition

Here it is!


-HQ-

Arch Heretic - Equivalent to Chaos Lord without Terminator Armor or Deamon Weapons. More representative of a lone CSM who has taken a leadership role. Sorceror Upgrade.

Corrupted Commander - Sort of like an IG officer. Whereas the Arch Heretic will be your combat choice, the corrupted commander will provide leadership bonuses.

Support Staff - Works the same as the DA command squad. One for every IC and doesn't take a slot up. Contains a lot of the options that IG command squads do, and has access to CSM Icons.

Greater Deamon - Same as C:CSM

-Elites-

Big Mutants - Ogrn equivalent with straight-up CC weapons, fleet, and access to Icons. Also a possibility that they have the random table that CSM Possessed do.

Veterans - Same as IG version, but with access to powerweapons and CSM Icons.

Stalk Tank - A walker that is like a dreadnought in weapon options, has the armor 11-11-10, comes with Possession standard. Possible units of 2.

-Troops-

Traitors - IG Squad Equivalent

Mutants -Same as old list with Marks being replaced with Icons.

Zombies - Same as APOC version. Counts as having an Icon for summoning purposes.

Lesser Deamons - Same as C:CSM

-Fast Attack-

Corrupted Hellhound - Spray has a leadership modifier, costs 20 points more.

Rough Riders - Same as IG version with access to Icons.

Corrupted Sentinels - Same as IG with DP option but no scout move.

-Heavy-

Corrupted Leman Russ - Same as IG with DP option

Corrupted Basilisk - Same as DP option

Corrupted Vehicle - Akin to the Looted Wagon for generic corrupted vehicle conversions.



Lost and the Damned Special Rules:

Icons - Same as the CSM versions.

Deamon Protection - The whole army gains a -1 leadership modifer in close combat, and are immune to Psychic Powers.



There you go!

I like your list ideas Mahu, but I'd throw generic demons in there as elite choices too. Gives a place in the army for the models and gives the army more options too.

Mahu, your list is pretty good. Minor quibbles as to FOC locations for Stalk Tank & Lesser Daemons.

One suggest is to always steal the latest rules & statlines from the Apoc Datasheets for your Mutants, etc. This keeps things simpler for everyone.

Well if the generic deamons are the same as CSM ones, they don't take any FOC slots anyways. If the list is a true 5th edition list, keeping them Troops adds more to their viability. I was like you at first though, I wanted them to be an elites choice, but I think that it ultimately hurts them a little too much to keep them viable.

You have to rationalize how the army plays. The quintessential question shouldn't be "How do we get LatD back" but "What unique playstyle would a LatD list bring to the game".

I think the problem with the last list was that is was a hodge-podge of ideas and concepts and was never a trueliy defined army concept. Where they corrupted guard, where they CSM with cultists, etc. Now the verity of the list was their primary appeal, but I think a refocusing of them is in order.

They way I view them is "Random Imperial Planet turns to chaos". So what would a force like that look like? I agree that CSM wouldn't necessarily be there, if at all. Their presence always took away from the army in my opinion, because the current trend in 40k and Chaos seems to always be about CSM. The difference needs to be there, and if we are basing our list of the assumption that allies are no longer a part of Regular 40, the list needs to stand on its own.

So what makes this list different. The best way to approach it is a Horde type assault army with only miminal shooting. But how do you seperate it as an army type from Orks or Tyranids (or even the comming Deaomn book). My take was that they are generally more fragile then the two, but add more Leadership modifiers. Essentially the equivalent to Fantasy Undead.

Having a swarm of 80 - 100 mutants or zombies that are fearless and put negative modifers in Close Combat just sounds cool. Support them with corrupted IG tanks and summoned deamons, and you have a unique force that represents a very intregal part of the 40k fluff, that has been sorely lacking in games.

I always liked big mutants. not sure if fleet matches the concept very well. but IMO there should be the option for rending claws and/or heavy weapons. which of course wouldn't count as heavy for them.

also, Powerlifter sentinels should be an option.

antoher idea. how about suicide bombers? to politcly incorect?

I gave big mutants fleet because of the rumored 5th edition run rule. I wanted them to be able to run into combat, so they can either support the mutants forward progress or play counter attack to a more traitor focused army.

Suicide Bombers can be an option for Support and traitor squads. I.E.:

"One model in the unit may exchange his weapons for a bomb pack. If the unit hasn't move that turn, the model equiped with the bomb pack can move 6"+2D6" away from his unit, ignoring usual coherancy rules. He may move into an enemy unit, simply move enemy models the minimum distance required to move out of the bomb pack model's path. At the end of that models movement he explodes. Center a large blast template over the models head. It has the following profile: Str. 8, AP 3. After resolving casulties, remove the bomb pack model as a casulty. Any effected units must take a pinning test."

However, I don't like the idea,

Powerlifter Sentinels can be done by adding CC weapon options to the corrupted sentinel.

I kinda like it like that. similar to bomb squigs, just more evil.


so, what would be a good profil for the big mutants?

WS BS S T W I A LD
3 2 5 4 3 2 3 ?

they also should get feel no pain IMO

so, I was really hoping to get more responses on this. aw well.

another thing which shot in my head was something like a gastank transporter. kinda like suicide bombers, just BIGGER.

Big mutants should only have 2 wounds and maybe ld 7-8. They're too dumb to be afraid imo.Kind of like the cave troll in lotr.