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Wraithlord, Bright Lance, Wraithsword - 140
Wraithlord, Bright Lance, Wraithsword - 140
10 Wraithguard, Warlock, Spirit Seer, Conceal - 396
Wave Serpent, Twin Bright Lances, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 165
4 Wraithguard, Warlock, Conceal, Singing Spear - 183
Eldrad - 210
Yriel - 155
5 Pathfinders - 120
5 Pathfinders - 120
5 Pathfinders - 120

Total: 1749

Used to have shining spears, but they never made their point value. Same with swooping hawks and jetbikes. So I'm getting rid of them for other stuff. I decided to take a WS w/ WG, and another wraithlord. I have found wraithguard to be EXTREMELY resilient in all my matches, and often times soak up all the firepower AND kill close to their points in cost. Usually I run eldrad behind them w/ fortune, and sometimes guide on wraithlord or a mind war. I have found pathfinders in most of my games have killed over there point cost. Great stuff. I'm hoping the new wave serpent will give me some mobility, and some anti tank.

So what do ya think?
~dan

S l o w.

You aren't very shooty, so all the resilience is well and good but you'll be outshot by any SAFH and in a really bad way.

I dunno man, it takes 33.33 repeating ap 1,2, or 3 wounds to kill them in the open. Most armies SAFH armies have bs 3, so that's atleast 66 shots, and then they still have to wound... on T6...

and against smalls arms fire you need twice as many shot's to take them down... wounding vs t6... example: it takes 297 bolter marine shot's to kill a squad of 10 wraithguard and a conceal lock... or 74 plasma marine shots to take them down... or 28.5 las cannon marine shots .. What army has that much fire power? And that's when they are in the open... without fortune... And the 10 man will ALWAYS be fortuned. then you need 30 of any wound's to take the pathfinders down... thats 67 bolter shots per 5 man PF squad...

I will be outnumbered in shots by SAFH, but I doubt I'll take more casulties than they do...
~dan

Yes, and you shoot what makes the army tick.

Being invulnerable, slow, and unable to shoot back is pretty damn pointless if you can't actually kill the enemy.

Wraithguard are very tough, and so what? You have no close combat troops to support them, and if you think the Wraithlords are close combat troops....well, they aren't going to be alive to do so.

You seem very focused on the unit of Wraithguard being indestructable, and while math is fine and lots of players swear by statistics; some armies really will shoot you off the board.

My IG, my DE...yeah, they'll send you away PDQ if I run them full-power mode. My Seer Council + Shining Spear combo will rip that unit a new one in 1 turn (not round) of close combat. See, you have no light weapons fire and your long ranged firepower is...snipers and 2 BL? This isn't going to do well at all against most armies because you cannot deliver a deathblow when the Wraithguard arrive, if they arrive at all.

What do you do when the Wraithlord get downed, and the other guy is fearless or mech so he can ignore your pathfinders--and focuses his entire army on the one big Wraithguard unit? It's not like you can move and get away from whatever he decides to do to you, ya know.

I mean, IG infantry will tie you up, for goodness sake.

Yes, pathfinders are very resilient. And they also don't do much. Anyone gets a flamer template into them, kiss 'em goodbye. Might work great for you but if you think killing 15 orks a turn is going to stop 100+ orks (or gaunts, or IG) you are sadly mistaken.

Stelek is expressing it a bit drastic, but besides that I share the opinion, that the army aint as good as it might seem to you.

Pathfinders in these numbers tend to have issues to find enough proper cover from time to time, which lowers their overall efficiency.

A single Serpent with expensive cargo will bite the dust fast.

The Wraithlords should get EML instead of swords (you can still model swords if you like the look.)

Yriel isnt enough for countercharge on his own.

what do you think of this list compared to the previous:

Wraithlord, Bright Lance, EML, Dual Flamers - 155
Wraithlord, Bright Lance, EML, Dual Flamers - 155
10 Wraithguard, Warlock, Spirit Seer, Conceal - 396
Wave Serpent, Twin Bright Lances, Vectored Engines, Spirit Stones - 165
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Two Shuri Cats, Bladestorm - 152
Eldrad - 210
Yriel - 155
5 Pathfinders - 120
5 Pathfinders - 120
5 Pathfinders - 120

Total: 1748

A step in the right direction.

You still need a serious countercharge unit. I would suggest to drop the single nonscoring Serpent and a unit of Pathfinders for 5 Shining Spears plus Exarch, Hit n Run and Lance. They benefit a lot from first turn Fortune.

Here are some more uncommon concepts to spice up the list:

You could load Yriel into a Falcon accompanied by 5 Fire Dragons. (You could drop Yriel alltogether because he doesnt help the overall concept much, but I see your fluff reasons.)

Then consider to field 2-3 units of 3 Wraithguard. This is debateable and something I have never seen done before, but its pretty good imo as long as you have the elite slots. The reason is that 2-3 small units are much harder to tarpit, and are actually quite a threat with their ability to hurt multiple expensive targets at once. And they are dirt cheap given their threat level and resilience.

Also they are scoring until reduced to a men and even then stay dangerous. It is not mandatory to take Warlocks. 1/6 for Wraithsight is a chance I would take to save points for more offensive units.

Finally Vibro Cannons are a steal and help against vehicles as well as Hordes. Especially in your list Vibros would be good, because you dont use the available cover to hide Skimmers.