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First off, a word of caution to anyone reading. This is not a battle report in the strictest sense, but rather a report on the tourney as a whole, and the members of Team ATL in particular, which briefly describes a number of battles. If you seek in depth analysis of the tactics and rolls which brought a particular list victory or defeat, seek elsewhere. This is just the story of what went down at the tourney, how the lists did in general, and my impressions on the tourney as a whole.

That said:

About a third of our club posse'd up for a road trip, rocked down to Gastonia for a Warhammer 40k tourney. It's a long drive, and I had been up late trying (and failing) to put paint on my newly assembled army. Still, we got there on time for the tourney.

The Scoring:

This was an 1850 point tournament, 3 rounds long. The missions summed to 30 battle points each, with additional objectives in the first 2 missions which could earn 9 (in the first mission) or 15 (in the second mission) bonus battle points. In addition, there was 5 bonus battle points up for grabs on each mission, for killing the enemy's general, troop choices, and the like. There were also soft scores, but I didn't pay attention to them.

The players:

First off, A and B are the same players as the ones in this BatRep: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208154.page

Me: I'm a competitive player, driven to experiment and win with whatever list I'm bringing. I like to think I play optimally and construct armies well, and I've got best general's from all over to prove it. Ordinarily I'm a Necron player, but I'm going through a Chaos phase and I just took the Necrons over to Murfreesboro, so I'm playing a gimmick list today. I have a tendency towards caustic comments which cost me sportsmanship, and my painting skills are decidedly sub par. I'm going for Best General, but today I expect maybe 1 win, 1 tie and 1 loss, due to the weakness of my list. Probably my biggest strength is that I play 2-3 games a week, and consequently rarely make random errors.

My list:

Chaos Lord (no wargear) " Lord Dave "
5 Chaos Space Marines
5 Chaos Space Marines
3 Chaos Terminators, one has heavy flamer w/Dedicated Land Raider transport
3 Chaos Terminators, one has heavy flamer w/Dedicated Land Raider transport
3 Chaos Terminators, one has heavy flamer w/Dedicated Land Raider transport
One Chaos Land Raider
One Chaos Land Raider
One Chaos Land Raider

My assessment:

My list is simply a list check for the other list. Do they have adequate hardened anti-tank? If so they win, if not they lose. It's at its best on clear tables in VP missions, at it's worst in missions where the Land Raiders have to do a lot of driving and don't get to shoot. It plays extremely fast (I've been beat in 40 minutes by IG) and it rarely can inflict enough damage to win more than a Solid victory if the enemy just digs in. Not a strong list, but much like the 9 tomb spyder list (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/185367.page), I just like trying new stuff every once in a while.


Player A:

Player A is the best player in our club, an accomplished tactician who is always improving his army lists and who plays every week. His paint scheme is good, he's a good sport, and I can count on one hand the number of timesI've seen him lose. I'd bet money he's going to be best overall.

His list:

Deceiver
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers
4 Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers
3 Heavy Destroyers

My assessment: I still think my Decepticrons are better, but there's no denying this is a mean list. It makes a mockery of all assault units, has great durability, shoots unbelievably hard and has the ability to turbo boost in all directions for last round scoring stuff. On top of all that there's Big D, playing Goalie for the warriors and dissecting enemy strongpoints. It's strong on all mission types, but at its best on wide open boards and has 2 notable vulnerabilities, to lash chaos and drop pod marines with Fear The Darkness.

Player B:

B is recently returned to the hobby, and trying hard to get back in the swing of things. He still doesn't have a great eye for distance and he makes the occasional tactical error, but he's a player cut from my cloth. That is, he tries his best to win the game and tends towards low sportsmanship and paint scores. He hasn't produced good results yet though, and his last adventure with Mech Eldar has embittered him to the point of taking a new Codex. That said, he's got a cool spin on the 'dex I've always wanted to try out, and I'm anxious to see how it does. I doubt he'll win anything, but if he does it'll be best general.

Crisis Suit commanders + guards
Crisis Suits
Crisis Suits
Crisis Suits
2 units fire warriors (min size)
3 Broadsides (some shield drones)
3 Broadsides (some shield drones)
3 Broadsides (some shield drones)

My assessment: Static shooty Tau, I've always wanted to try it. I never got the exact list, but the gist is 9 broadsides, min FW, and as many crisis suits as possible, all with plasma/missile pods. It seems like it ought to work, right? I don't think he'll have a good result on moving around missions though, Recon would be tough. Further, Devilfish are really sweet units to give up...I'm not sure. I don't know enough to assess how this list will do, I imagine that like all Tau lists it's best in a crowded board with room for the suits to hide. Slow so the best missions for it will be Vp missions...although Deep Striking the Crisis Suits isn't an awful substitute for last round turbo boosting.

Player C:

C bought a serious army and invested a serious effort into learning to play it well. He's been getting great results, and has made some tweaks to his list that I think have improved it noticeably. He lacks real experience, but is rapidly accumulating it. His army is painted to a high standard, well converted and looks good on the table. He's a good sport and I could really see him winning any of the awards, with the possible exception of best overall, as his inexperience with the whole gamut of 40k list types might cause him to make an error somewhere along.

Librarian (FtD) w/Command squad in a drop pod
Terminator Librarian (FtD) w/Command squad in a drop pod
Tac Squad w/plasma guns and power fist in a drop pod
Tac Squad w/plasma guns and power fist in a drop pod
Tac Squad w/plasma guns and power fist in a drop pod
Tac Squad w/melta guns in a drop pod
Dreadnought in a drop pod
Dreadnought in a drop pod
Dreadnought in a drop pod

My assessment: Drop Pod marines, well executed. What's there to say? Everyone's faced this list or its close kin. I think adding the Pfists and subtracting one melta squad has improved the list. This is a competitive list, in my book, ready to take on just about anything (with the possile exception of Zilla Nids or Horde Orks)

Player D:

D has been in the hobby for a long time. He's much older than the rest of us. He won a Grand Tourney back in the day, but he hasn't really gotten hip to 4th edition. He's a perfectionist when it comes to painting, and his army is immaculate. On the other hand, he doesn't play very well, due to remembering the rules wrong and a reluctance to experiment with his lists (understandable since it takes him so long to be satisfied with his models. He's a solid contender for best painted, but I'd be surprised if he beat anyone who plays competitively.

His List:

Daemonhunters, I didn't see what he had though.

My assessment: Probably not very competitive, it's Daemonhunters after all.

The Tourney:

I'd like to take a moment to congratulate the holders of this tournament. We bought 5 guys and only had one inter-club game. Further, the majority of us finished our games every round, and I don't think any of us had a bad experience with the other players. The rounds were of sufficient length but weren't allowed to drag over, and the tourney started and finished on time. Bravo.

Round 1:

Primary Table quarters
Secondary: VP's
Tertiary: Kill Highest Point Unit
Bonus: 3 pts for each Elite in enemy deployment zone

Enemy list:

Asureon (DA Phoenix Lord)
3 DA squads of 10 men each with Wave Serpents, 2 have twin linked brightlances, last has anti-infantry weaponry
2 Falcons w/all trimmings, pulse lasers can hurt Land Raiders
2 Vipers w/anti infantry weaponry
2 Fire Dragon squads of 5 men each

My assessment: Hmm...a brief assessment reveals he's threatenign with 2 pulse lasers and 2 twin linked bright lances. The pulse lasers are on hard targets, but the Bright Lances ought to be easy enough to get down. Much more dangerous are the Fire Dragons, who will probably get a Land Raider each. Caution is needed, I could lose this.

The Game: He starts out moving forward and firing, not getting much done, I respond and drop a wave serpent, shake the falcons. He moves up and lets out the Fire Dragons, popping one land raider and immobilizing another, on both ends of the line. Terminators hop out and kill the Fire Dragons with flamers and CC, as does Lord Dave. Asureon sees his chance and brings his DAs out to mow down the termies while he goes mano e mano with the Chaos Lord. He kills him handily and escapes back into his Wave Serpent. That's pretty much the last thing that goes right for Team Eldar, as I drive into all the quarters and blast most everything he's got down, over the course of the rest of the game. I win by massacre, losing 1 Land Raider and having 3 immobilized, and with 2 dead terminator squads and my dead boss.

He's a great guy and its a fun game. A trivia fact is that this is the guy I played in my last round on my last trip here (although nether of us had these lists), and we had the same table.

A's game:

A gets phased out by a Terminator heavy list! Wow! I would never have expected A to lose in the first round. Apparently the game was down to the wire, with him having one quarter claimed, the other guy having one quarter claimed and him just needing to blow up a whirlwind to tie or win, but there's no excuses in Codex: Necron, Phase Out Means Lose By Massacre. My congratulations to the gentlemen who won this game, those Terminators looked awesome, and the list is clearly dynamite.

B's game:

B plays another Tau and they blast each other to bits. Ultimately the game is tied, but apparently the defining characteristic was that everything that was shot at died. The battlefield was apparently awash in blood after this Tau on Tau mirror match.

C's game:

C stomped on a Dark Angels list. The owner was just getting back into the game and towards the end C was giving him pointers.

D's game:

Another mirror match here, D got matched up against a Daemonhunter list and got thumped. He couldn't really handle the enemy's Land Raider and it apparently cost him.

Round 2:

Primary: Recon
Secondary: Kill Troop choices
Tertiary: Don't let them have a single unit in your deployment zone
Bonus: 5 points for each Heavy Support you have in their deployment zone

Enemy list:
Grey Knight HQ w/Terminator retinue
Grey Knight Terminators
Grey Knights w/boss, 2 psycannons
Grey Knights w/boss, 2 psycannons
Grey Knights w/boss, 2 psycannons
Dread w/twin linked lascannon
Dread w/assault cannon
Land Raider Crusader

My assessment: He's got 2 assault cannons and a lascannon against 6 land raiders. It's a vicious mismatch. His list is absurdly weak on anti-tank and he'll pay for it today. This is the guy who just played D.

The Game: On an open field this would have been an instant slaughter, but this was a very crowded city, and the LOS is very limited. Consequently he's able to fight my fleet in detail, with his land raider and dreads. We still get them (all the but the danged LR, immobilize it on turn 1, tear off it's assault cannons on turn 8...in between all the lascannons...and there were a great many, just bounced off) If it wasn't for the fact that he spent the first 3 turns sunk in despair he could have made a game of this. As it was he cowered so long that he couldn't recon with anything except deep strikers, so I left one LR behind to fend them off and drove the rest across the field . His land raider shot one down, but the others scored, destroying his troops int he meantime. I got 35 for this one, or maybe a little more. Another massacre anyway.

A's game:

A played Warzonekos (I think there's some kind of rule that that has to happen at all tournaments) and got him again. Warzonekos got a measure of revenge by blasting the Deceiver away in the first round though.

B's game:

B got utterly trashed by an Eldar army, of the shooty variety (war walkers, fire prisms). His bemoaning of the scoring nature of holo-tanks were scorned by all as karma-riffic, given his own tri-falcon list.

C's game:

C defeated the Space Marine terminator list that just beat A. Apparently the Terminators didn't deep strike, despite it being a Recon mission, and instead lined up on the back of the board and got Feared off? It wasn't a massacre, but C pulled it out in the end.

D's game:

D played the Dark Angels who had been beaten by C last round, and they battled to a draw.

Round 3:

Primary: Take and Hold
Secondary: Don't let any enemy scoring units in the center
Tertiary: Put a unit in the enemy deployment zone

Enemy list:

Lord, steed of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, lightning claws
Daemon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch, Warptime
10 Thousand Sons, sorcerer w/Doombolt
10 Thousand Sons, sorcerer w/Doombolt
10 Thousand Sons, sorcerer w/Bolt of Change
10 Thousand Sons, sorcerer w/Bolt of change
Dread w/lascannon, missile launcher
Dread w/lascannon, missile launcher

My assessment: CC aside, he's got 2 bolts of change and 2 dread's armaments...vs. 6 Land Raiders.

The game: On top of his list disadvantage he was unlucky. On the first round his dread fire frenzied into his Ksons, killing 3, and his fire was ineffective. My return fire stunned and immobilized both dreads. He then got Perils of the Warp on not one but BOTH sorcerers, who dropped dead. I blasted the Prince and both dreads, and at the end of turn 2 he had no units that could harm me. I engaged in some judicious firing and sent out the assaulters to reduce his scoring units and ended up with another massacre.

A's game: A played C. In this game I think C has the list edge, as his drop-FtD should be able to settle some of A's units, while the power fists threaten everywhere at once, and the Deceiver can only save one of the clusters. C isn't ready for this game though, and makes some mistakes that end up costing him the game. He seemed to understand what he'd done wrong though, and I'm not sure I'd bet on A in a rematch.

B's game: B played the same Daemonhunters that D had played in the first round and I had played in the second round, and ended up in a tie that was more of a mutual loss (0 points both ways). Given the ridiculous firepower in B's army and the DH's lack of long range threat this must have taken impressive botching. I think he deep struck his crisis suits into the Daemonhunters midst, in a fit of madness. It turns out Crisis Suits can't handle Grey knights in melee. The fact that B only managed a tie when the enemy's HQ Deep Struck off the board is seriously weak sauce. With JSJ and no way for the enemy to handle it he ought to have won this mission handily.

C's game: covered under A's game, above.

D's game: D did battle with Chaos Space Marines, and they fought to the death, ultimately resulting in a second tie/mutual loss of the round. It was actually a really good game, from the bits that I saw of it, just an all out slaughter fest.

Awards:

D got Best Painted
I had the most battle points, but there was no "Best General"...aww.....
The Eldar who won over Player B in round 2 won the Best Overall, which was well deserved, I think.

Anyway, grats once again to the hosts, and thanks to all our co-players for an enjoyable time!

So what valuable lesson did we learn?

Most armies can’t handle 6 Land Raiders, and that you do not have to use any strategy or tactics to win with that list.

wow and I thought I deserved a spot in the Wall of shame for my army.

You do!

HAAA!

- G

Blackmoor wrote:So what valuable lesson did we learn?

Most armies can’t handle 6 Land Raiders, and that you do not have to use any strategy or tactics to win with that list.

Sounds just like Godzilla Nids, except with more weaknesses.

I agree with whitedragon. This list has the same basis as Mech Eldar, as Mech Tau, as Nidzilla, as Horde Orc. It just overloads one segment of the weaponry spectrum, leaving the majority of the enemy's points ineffective. Unlike the aforementioned, more competitive, lists this list is itself only really effective against enemy's vehicles.

Very true.

If that list had gone up against a shooty DE list packing 20+ lance weapons, he probably would have been tabled pretty quickly. I have one shooty DE list that packs 24 dark lances and 6 blasters on 15 target units (30 lance weapons). I have an airforce shooty list that packs 24 dark lances and 12 blasters on 21 target units (36 lance weapons).

Dear Saldiven,

I have never had to play against Dark Eldar. I am impressed with the Web Way Portal list posted by Stelek, and now your mention of list of 30 lance weapons. That should generate immense killing power against anything from monstrous creatures through marine equivalents.

But, DE are usually not at the top of the GT battle results. What problems do DE face that prevent them from reaching the top level of competitive play?


As for 40K Enthusiasts list-I thought it was brilliant! A unique take or improvement on the traditional Rhino Rush. And, if armor becomes more effective under 5th edition in some way, then this could actually become a build paradigm.

Really any flavor of shooty list that doesn't shaft its anti-tank quotient will dominate this list. Obviously DE anti-tank spam is one of the worst flavors you could draw, but anything with anti-tank weaponry hidden in infantry blocks will prevail.

I was very lucky in drawing to 3 straight matchups notorious for lacking anti-tank.

40kenthusiast wrote:I was very lucky in drawing to 3 straight matchups notorious for lacking anti-tank.

I was hoping to see you up against a nice AT army, but no such luck. Would have been a bit more interesting, but it was still neat to see such a "whacky" list take to the field. And does your lord actually have 0 equipment? As in, no power weapon?

I liked the whole tournament report too, seeing how the other guys did and your assessment of each.

- Salvage

Yeah, "Lord Dave" is totally hapless, toting nothing but a bolt pistol and a close combat weapon.

In the first game he charged 3 fire dragons, and over the course of 3 close combat phases managed to kill precisely one. Then Asureon (or however you spell the Dire Avenger phoenix lord) countercharged him and positively unzipped him, netting my opponent 4 BP's for killing my general with their general in H2H.

mikeguth wrote:Dear Saldiven,

I have never had to play against Dark Eldar. I am impressed with the Web Way Portal list posted by Stelek, and now your mention of list of 30 lance weapons. That should generate immense killing power against anything from monstrous creatures through marine equivalents.

But, DE are usually not at the top of the GT battle results. What problems do DE face that prevent them from reaching the top level of competitive play?


As for 40K Enthusiasts list-I thought it was brilliant! A unique take or improvement on the traditional Rhino Rush. And, if armor becomes more effective under 5th edition in some way, then this could actually become a build paradigm.

For myself, I have trouble with Necrons run by a good general. I had some trouble last year against a guy who took three sqauds of donkey gun speeders...completely rolled my flank.

Honestly, though, their low T, low base Ld, and bad armor make them somewhat unforgiving. I didn't win at all for the first six months or so I played DE. Since then, I haven't taken more than one loss in a tournament and win far more than I lose. Part of that is that DE are so rare that most players don't know how to avoid DE strengths.

Wow, 6 landraiders, that looks like one of Stelek's lists.

Would've been interesting to see you in a matchup vs a strong AT army, 6 landraiders is still a lot to get through.

Actually, I think my Ravenwing would've given you trouble, I have an awful lot of meltaguns and the speed to get close enough to use them (I don't have 1850 points though... yet).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

"Wow, 6 landraiders, that looks like one of Stelek's lists. "

Ouch!

Yeah, Ravenwing would probably have have smoked me, although bikes/skimmers are easier to get rid of than simple infantry standing in cover and firing lascannons.

I once took this list against a competitive Guard army and got tabled on turn 4, except for some measly infantry that crept around till games end.

I only meant that he often designs wacky lists (including a 5 Land Raider DH army).

As for Ravenwing, first turn: turboboost, second turn: melta, third turn: profit.

Ozymandias, King of Kings