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Im building my army for a begginers leage. I have 1 autarch, 8 guardians, 10 dire avengers with one exarch with a pw and a shimmer shield, 10 howling banshees, 10 fire dragons, 1 wraithlord, 1 falcon, and 1 viper

the howling banshees, fire dragons, wraithlord, falcon, and viper I have'nt put together yet

whats a good army list for these units?

how many points are you looking to play games around?

Your question is difficult because chances are you can use everything in your army depending on the point total. The question then is really what role will each of your units play in a game.

You have a Command Unit, the autarch; two troops choices-required for basic missions, the guardians and dire avengers; two heavy support out of 3 allowed-wriathlord and falcon; Banshees-fast attack?, Vyper-fast attack, and then elites-Fire Dragons.

Fortunately its a beginner's league, because Eldar are complex, and your units are a sort of smorgasboard. Some of the units you have are not the best either.

For a quick boost, I would buy one figure, Eldrad Uthwe. He is a psyker, having special powers, which could help make your army more effective with his psycotic powers. Use instead of the Autarch.

Your Fire Dragons are great against tanks or heavily armored troops like Terminators, but have short range. So, you don't want to just walk them at a longer range enemy. They are a feature of many of the best Eldar armies, but they usually ride in either a Falcon or a Wave Serpent transport. You should review the rules about a vehicle moving, troops disembarking and then firing. You could split your Fire Dragons into two units and put one unit in your Falcon.

The Banshees are neat because of their high initiative. Read the rules on 'who goes first in hand to hand combat'. But, they are on foot (read fleet rules); and are not resilient against shooting. Harlequins are a similar troop type but have abilities that prevent the enemy from shooting at them at long range to some extent. To get Banshees into hand to hand combat without being shot you will have to use terrain. Like the Dragons, you do not want to simply advance in the open against a line of troops armed with Bolters or heavier anti infantry weapons like Heavy Bolters or Autocannons, because you will die horribly.

The Wraithlord has a higher Ballistic Skill than your infantry. It can take a few hits. It can have flamers for anti infantry. From the point of view exclusively of what you have now the Bright lance/MLauncher combo might be ideal. Bright Lances are for long range tank killing, . So, your Wraithlord is capable of anti tank, anti infantry if armed with a pulse laser or missile launcher, long range and close combat.

Eldar Guardians are usually accompanied by a Weapons Platform. Do you still have one in your box? The Weapons Platform lets them move and shoot with a weapon that ordinarily would require infantry to stand still. Use this ability to make sure that you get the first shot on advancing enemy infantry. Brightlances are typical. But here, you might want something with more shots like a pulse laser. (Where's my codex....).

Read the Skimmer rules, understand that fast moving skimmers can only take glancing hits. Then read the Eldar vehicle equipment section to understand how the different upgrades can allow you to move faster, avoid being shaken (or is it stunned), and how you can barely be hit at all as long as you move fast with your Falcon and your Vyper every turn.

I'd arm the Vyper with something other than the Bright Lance-since you need more long range anti-personel weapons compared to tank killing with what you have.

Summary: Most Eldar Infantry is weak to shooting, and have their greatest value either as platforms for walking heavy weapons or disembarking from Transports to pound a specific target (read Dire Avenger rule on Storm of Fire).

In this army you may not have the transports to get the best use of your infantry.

I would use the long range fire from the Falcon, moving fast, to force the enemy to come to me. I would use the speed of the Vyper with the Falcon to attack one part of the enemy line, avoiding as much fire as possible. When the enemy tries to advance. The Wriathlord snipes at long range, then medium range as the enemy is forced to close -since he can't hurt the Falcon. Hopefully at this point I can commit my infantry, maybe charging out of cover or advancing and firing with half the Fire Dragons. I then move the Falcon up and deliver the other half of the Fire Dragons at the appropriate target (tanks, terminators especially)...

Sorry, more Tactics than list advice. But without a point total all one can say is MAX OUT THE FALCON and the WRAITHLORD. You may only need 5 firewarriors, and find the heavy weapon platform.

mikeguth gives sound advice (although he got some details wrong: Banshees are Elite, the multishot weapon he is thinking of is the scatter laser, the DA Exarch power is Bladestorm, and I don't think the Eldar have firewarriors ).

He is also too kind to mention that there is no good army list for the units you have. Footslogging FDs are meat. Footslogging Banshees are meat. 5 FDs can go in the Falcon. The other 5 are meat. Guardians. . . well, Guardians are always meat, so that's okay (I still love them). The principle is this: if it has a short-ranged weapon or is an assault unit, and if it has no jump pack or similar means of transportation, then it should never, ever be allowed to walk. You need transports (as he does mention) for this list to work, unless (and this is quite possible) your opponents have equally untenable lists. The problem is that it's likely that most people in a beginners' league will have gone for the safe choice of Marines, and it is much harder to screw up a Marine list.

Thanks for the help guys I realy apriecate. it I think Im going to put a scatter laser on the vyper and a d cannon on the support platform as for the wraithlord I think Im going to go with a bright lance and missle launchers (thanks for the idea mikeguth ) well as a shuriken catupault and a flamer . the fire dragon and howling banshee squads I am going to divide up into squads of five so they can be mounted in the falcon wich I have decided to give a starcannon and uprgrade the 2 shuriken catupaults into 1 shuriken cannon and upgrade it with star engines and a holo field. and I guess Im going to have to give up the money I was saving to get a fire prism to get a wave serpent .

Scatter laser on the Vyper is a good idea. It sucks to put a BL on it and miss with the one chance you usually get at killing anything before the Vyper gets shot down. Use LoS to limit return fire.

D-cannons suck. Their range is too short, Escalation, when it happens, neuters them even more, and they suck up a precious HS slot. By the way, you're not confusing support weapon platforms with heavy weapon platforms, are you? They're not the same.

The WL is better off with two flamers. When would you ever use the shuriken catapult?

Starcannon on the Falcon is a waste unless you're just spending points. The scatter laser is better bang for your buck, since it is 2/3 as good as the star cannon against Marines out of cover and obviously better against hordes and vehicles. Plus, Falcons tend to spend most of the game shaken, so you don't want to over-invest in weaponry. Also, you really need Spirit Stones as well as the H-field to allow the Falcon to keep moving, and VE is mroe useful (I find) than SE.

Okay after reading the codex and looking at my models I have determined I have a heavy weapons platform that can be attached to my guardian squad. so what should Put on it (scater laser maybee)?

Yes, the scatter laser works best. The shuriken cannon is too short-ranged, the star cannon, for the price, pales in comparison to the scatter laser, and the BL is too expensive (but can be worthwhile if Guided). The only other option I'd consider is the EML, since it's affordable and allows you to sit way back if necessary.

do you think I should have exarchs for my fire dragons and banshees

Depends. The FD Exarch is only worthwhile for flamer + Crack Shot, which then allows you to toast infantry as well a sbust tanks (sometimes both at once: target a tank, position the template so it clips the tank and hits a nearby unit). Tank Hunters and the fire pike are pretty much overkill.

As for the Banshee Exarch, she's worthwhile if you're putting the squad in a Falcon (because otherwise 6 Banshees may not be killy enough to do the job), but unnecessary in a full-strength squad. If you do take her, I would recommend the Executioner, since it helps a bit against things like Plague Marines and DPs, unless you bring a Doomseer on bike, in which case the Mirror Swords are good. Avoid the Triskele, since you will often want to Fleet. Avoid the Banshee Exarch powers as well: WS sucks because nothing you really need help against is likely to fail a Ld test, and Acrobatic sucks because Banshees should not be getting charged while unengaged. It's easy to get suckered into these two powers because they're so cheap. Stay strong, and take them only if you're looking to fill points and have nothing better to do with them.

Looking at your model choices, it seems like your armylist should be built around the "advancing foot" model. Basically, this means that you set up a good firebase and shoot the enemy while closing quickly to get your largely mid-range anti-infantry units into range. You will need a mobile element as well, to go after enemy threats dug in on the other side of the board, to go after objectives, and to to reinforce your flanks against fast enemy units.

One of your main questions will be what unit rides in the Falcon. Looking at your model choice, I would say that should be Fire Dragons. You have only one anti-tank unit other than the Dragons- the Wraithlord. Should he go down early, you will be unable to deal with tanks. The Dragon's weaponry is short-ranged, so they really need the Falcon to get them in close.

Your other choice to go in the Falcon could be 6 Banshees, but their utility as countercharge troops is less than the Dragons' utility as tank hunters. Thing is, the Dargons can shoot heavily armored infantry if they need to. The banshees cannot hunt tanks, though. Thus the Dragons are the better choice for your small starting force. Adding a Wave Serpent later on will make you Banshees a good mobile CC force. They are a bit fragile on the ground, but if you have no other choice they can be fielded that way untill you expand your forces. Just try to move them up under cover as much as possible.

When you field the Falcon as a transport (especially as your only vehicle), it's important to ensure the cargo's arrival. Spirit stones, holofields and vectored engines will all help with this. They make the vehicle very expensive, but nearly unkillable.

With your advancing foot list, the Autarch might not be the best HQ choice. Autarchs are really helpful for units that start off the board in Escalation missions- vehicles and the like. You can certainly use him for now, either tooled for close combat (powerweapon and pistol) to reinforce your lines, or tooled for vehicle-hunting (wings and fusion gun). Either way, a set of Mandiblasters are a good idea. Watch out for the Warp Spider jump generator- they can kill your expensive HQ model with one lousy roll, unfortunately. Not a good choice, despite having a cool-looking model.

However, a Farseer with Guide or Doom will make your firebase troops more effective than an Autarch can. Try proxying one in a few games.

Good luck with your new forces!

You still haven't told us how many points you intend to play with in the league? Will you start at 500, then increase weekly? We can be much more specific when the point totals are known.

Also, will the league allow 'standard mission composition', which requires two troop choices and one headquarter choice, but then allows up to 3 Elite, 3 Fast Attack and 3 Heavy choices? Or, will it use a special rule like only 1 heavy, 1 elite, 1 fast attack choice per army?


It would probably be quite controversial whether to take a Wave Serpent, or to add a second Falcon. I would add a second Falcon.

Please read the Battle Reports by Blackmoor, or is it Green Blow Fly where he uses an Eldar army with an AVATAR!!! and Eldrad. This is a controversial choice, but he made it work.

Another great list to read is Stelek's Uber Bang Bang Army of Death. In this army, he takes FIRE PRISMS instead of ordinary Falcons. This maximizes long range firepower with tank killing. Note how he then uses other units like the Vypers to handle infantry and closer in shooting. Oops, back to work, more later.

Mike

the leuege will start at 1000 and add each week

Under the current ruloes, Mikeguth would be right to suggest you buy a second Falcon. However, under the new edition (due out this summer), Wave Serpents are likely to be almost as resilient, while also being cheaper and transporting more troops.

I say buy a Serpent, use it to cart the Banshees around as your countercharge or go-get-'em unit.

Waitasec...

...am I the first one to notice that you have a Wraithlord and no Seers on the board? That's a bad idea. With the Wraithsight rule, that's a 1/6th chance every turn that the WL will sit around doing nothing. It's worth buying a Farseer to go with your firebase just to prevent that. A cheaper (pointswise) alternative is to use a Warlock in the Guardian unit, upgraded to Spiritseer. I'd go for the Farseer, ditch the Autarch for now.

sorry but this is completely off topic, is 3 war walkers that are guided a good investment? or am i just plain crazy, it seems that it avarages like 18 hits or something...sounds good in theory

Dear person_5

I think it is actually on topic. I considered whether to recommend this as a next upgrade to FW's army. They can certainly dish it out. But, look at the armor-there isn't any....So, its a fun unit, it would be great to lay out that much fire. But, glass jaw. If you get on a board with little terrain, I think you would die a horrible quick death.

Mike Guth

Savnock's point,

The rules will probably change this summer. Skimmer armies, Tau and Eldar have been very competitive compared to Space Marines, and the Skimmers such as Falcons/Hammerheads etc may lose some of their resistance to long range fire.

The other rule which may change is the scenario generating and victory point systems. You may be forced to field more large units of 'troops' to control objectives.

Will this make Eldar a second tier army? Will this make a footslogging Eldar army more playable than a 'Mech' or Falcon based army?

I'm still not sure that you want a Wave Serpent instead of a 2nd Falcon. I'm actually not sold on Falcons vs. Fire Prisms. I would assert that a skilled Eldar player will almost never let you get a shot at his Falcons. Fire Prisms, having longer range, may be even harder to get a shot at. Then again, there are players who state that when playing AGAINST Eldar, you shouldn't try to shoot the Falcons-waste of time. Kill the other stuff in the Eldar army first. Blackmoor, in discussing his Eldar strategy says that this usually works to the Eldar benefit, because at the end of the game 2 Falcons alive are worth more than what most opponents will have alive....

FW needs to decide not only on a current 1000 points but what his vision is for the future of the army. 1 Wave Serpent may not be that much help. Wave Serpents mean invading the enemy lines and deploying troops. 3 Wave Serpents doing this are a flank attack. 1 WS doing this is a, well, suicide squad.

Wraithlords haven't figured prominently in any of the 'big hitters' suggestions on this forum. So, I can't suggest a proven army archetype of 1500, 1750 or 1850 points to build to using a Wriathlord.

Lots of good controversy here, after work I'll disagree about the Scatter Lasers! You need Star Cannons to kill marines, which are going to be better in 5th edition, and then there are Chaos Marines with 4+ Fearless immortality. That's why I'd lean towards Fire Prisms as well, but FW already has a Falcon, and I don't want to tell him that everything he has is unusable...

so what your saying mikeguth is that a 2cnd falcon would be a better investment then a wave serpent and that starcannons would be better at killing marines even though it is more expensive
well unfortunatley I already put a scatter laser on my vyper and heavy weapon platform.

The scatter laser is cheaper, longer range, and has more shots, and kills the same number of marines in cover as the starcannon. Starcannons of course, being AP2 are much better against terminators. The scatter laser also has the same strength, and with more shots can be more of a threat to vehicles than the starcannon.

Scatter Laser (The same against marines in cover and out of cover)
Marines - (4/2)*(2/3)*(1/3) = 0.44 dead marines

Starcannon
Marines in open - (2/1)*(2/3) = 0.67 dead marines
Marines in cover - (2/1)*(2/3)*(2/3) = 0.44 dead marines

Shuriken Cannon (The same against marines in cover and out of cover)
Marines - (3/2)*(2/3)*(1/3) = 0.33 dead marines

I think I might go with the bright lance on the falcon if I have the points scatter laser if I dont or am Im I wrong?

p.s is the wraithsword even worth the points it looks cool but I dont know if it can realy do much

Never put a BL on the falcon. Read the section in your rulebook about vehicles firing weapons. If you move the falcon, you'll only be able to fire the pulse laser or the BL. Since the Falcon must always be moving, the BL is worthless.

The wraithsword sucks. Moving at 6" a turn, the WL will only ever end up in combat with things that want to charge it. Get it a second heavy weapon instead.

See the Adepticon Army List thread just posted for Blackmoor's Eldar Army list. It gives you an idea of something that you could build towards from your starting list.