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The people I play with allow this but I was curious what people here though.

I have tried giving my tactical squads, using the chapter divergences, counter attack, true grit and furious assault.

Now, if I am assaulted and my men counter attack, do I get the bonus' for furious assaulting? Keep in mind that the counter attack does NOT give you +1 attack for charging (in this case doesn't affect my men cause of true grit ) but is "treated as a charge"

My gut reaction would be to say no, but that's just a gut response. Could you dig up and post the relevent portions of the furious assault and counter attack rules. Particularly the one parts that say when you get the furious bonus and the parts that say you don't get the +1 attack and it is treated as a charge. If we examine them closely we may be able to figure this out.

Nope. You always need to be the assaulter, not the defender, to trigger furious charge.

Counterattack just lets you move models 6".

True grit just gives you a static +1 to your A, and costs you the bonus for charging.

If you charge with true grit, you get the furious charge bonus.

It's a bit over the top to think you could do this, but it is what it is.

Counter-Attack gives you an Assault Move, but you don't count as charging for any purposes.

Also - it's Furious Charge, not Furious Assault. Furious Assault is a misprint, according to the FAQ.

Stelek wrote:Nope. You always need to be the assaulter, not the defender, to trigger furious charge.

Counterattack just lets you move models 6".

True grit just gives you a static +1 to your A, and costs you the bonus for charging.

If you charge with true grit, you get the furious charge bonus.

It's a bit over the top to think you could do this, but it is what it is.

It's not over the top at all. Counter attack actually says "Treat this counter-attack as you would an assault move" with the only exception being that you don't get the +1 attack. This makes you essentially a charger except that you don't get the bonus attack. It doesn't say treat like a consolidate attack or anything.

Here are the excerpts:

Counter-Attack:
Troops with this skill belive that attack is the best form of defense. If charge, they will spring forward themselves and counter-attack the enemy. To represent this, unengaged models from a unit that has been charged by the enemy must move up to 6" to get into base-to-base contact with the enemy. Treat the counter-attack as you would an assault move, so take terrain into account as normal. Models with counter attack do not recieve the +1 attack bonus for charging but will still be able to fight with their full compliment of attacks. You may not counter-attack if the unit was charged as part of a consolidation move.

Furious Charge:
Models with this skill are known for the wild feriocity of their charges. In a turn in which they charged into close combat they add +1 to both their initiative and strength characteristics. This ability will not affect sweeping advances.

Yes, it does.

Does it constitute an assault by you?

No.

It means you move 6" towards the enemy, subject to difficult terrain tests; and must follow the rules for moving your models. i.e. into base, in support, and in coherency.

Sadly, you are reading everything else into it.

It really doesn't do what you think it does.

So you tell me when YOU charged into close combat.

i.e. When did you move your closest-to-closest model and initiated a charge.

Answer is, you didn't. So you aren't "charging" in any way.

Anyway you believe or you don't.

I doubt it would specify an assault move since what you saying means it really doesn't mean assault move, it means just move.

It all comes down to what an assault move is. Since the only "assault move" is a charge, we always treated a counter attack as a charge without the +1 bonus for charging meaning that, as we've used it, we DID move the closest-to-closest model into base combat and initiated a counter-charge.(notice that it doesn't say "this is not a charge" or "do not treat as a charge" it says you don't gain the +1 for charging which implies that you are charging, just without the bonus normally granted.)

An Assault Move is the same as normal movement, with the exception that you can end up within 1" of an enemy unit. Although this is usually charging, it isn't, in this case.

There is nowhere in the core book (that I can find) that defines that as an assault move.

Without quoting the rulebook my belief was that the counter charge was a COUNTER charge and not a player initiating a charge.

So personally I would rule no as the ability is only used to get your models into a better posistion once they have already been charged by an opponent.

The part about "treat as an assualt move" is precisely that, you treat the movement just as you would when moving models during the assualt phase taking into account the terrain and any other factors. Tau suits can move during the assualt phase and this is also classed as an "assualt move".

Sorry to give a fluffy argument, but I don't have my codex's with me to give the page references. If I can find any page references I will edit this post with them. Or hopefully some other dakkaties are more in the know then me

Ventus wrote:Treat the counter-attack as you would an assault move, so take terrain into account as normal. Models with counter attack do not recieve the +1 attack bonus for charging but will still be able to fight with their full compliment of attacks.

Please explain to me how this is unclear. Look at the qualifying statement. "Treat the counter-attack as you would an assault move. This sentence says that you must move up to 6" to get into combat. Nowhere does it say you count as charging, you simply use the charging movement. Either way, not getting the +1 attack for charging would seem to me to be a pretty big indicator that you are not in fact initiating an assault and as such are not subject to furious charge.

I refer the OP to the second line of my signature.

That is all.