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I have been using chaos in fantasy mostl but now they can only take pants core choices i'll have to dig out the HE again. Here is what i was thinking for at my club which is quite competative

Characters - 925

Eltharion on stormwing - 490
Dragon mage, lvl2 2 scrolls, silver wand - 435

Core - 408
2 x 21 Spearmen - musician, std - 408

Special - 717
7 white lions, musician - 111
7 white lions, musician - 111
14 Swordmasters, full cmd, banner of ellyrian - 255
14 Swordmasters, full cmd - 240

Rare - 200
2 RBT's - 200


Total - 2249

any comments welcome.

HE without spearmen?

Without all the specials?

Just some herohammer characters?

You are missing the whole point of HE, I think.

Give the basic HE a chance! His cheese shall not disappoint you.

Want uber characters, play Chaos.

yeah might be a diff style to get used to
Updated now any thoughts?

Better but still alot of herohammer going on.

I don't like the dragon mage. He's big and scary looking, but he's still pretty fragile at T3, so any type of concentrated shooting at him will tear him up. If you want to get some big monster action going on, I'd vote that you just pony up for a star dragon without the special character.

Fundamentally, it looks like a grab bag of units which you like the look of without any central strategy. You've got a couple of shooting units, cavalry unit, some infantry and some big monsters, but I don't see any overall coherency.

What role does each unit have in your plan? How do they complement each other in these roles? How are you going to deal with massive magic/shooting/combat power? What are you going to do when someone moves faster than you?

I think you need to gain some focus in your list; dominate one phase and have an answer for the rest of them (magic and shooting).

Cheers

I disagree about the dragon mage. Exspenive, yes, but also far more cost effective than a simple scroll caddy as you get that as well as an FTC.

I don't really like Eltharion. You would probably be better off with a normal lord on a dragon with the star lance.

Also, drop the DP and get more spearmen. Your swordmasters and FTC shoulds serve as excellent hammers, removing the need for the cavalry.

Simillarly, the Eagles are unnecessary. You've already got plenty of flyers in the character section. The points would be better spent elsewhere.

What is FTC?

Flying terror causer, in this case the dragons and possibly Eltharion's mount, though I don't recall if it causes fear or terror.

Is that a standard acronym?

I use it alot, and the term is frequently spelled out on these boards. Don't know if that makes it standard, but the length of "flying terror causer" seems to make it excellent acronym fodder.

I'll go suggest it for the glossary then.

ok updated again hopefully might be a bit more versatile now with plenter of hammers and intend to use the white lions as charge blockers and small anvil units

Dogma:
How is a t3 unarmored, unwarded elf flying about on a large target more effective than a caddy hiding in a spearman unit? If I've got some shooting, all of the warmachines are going into the star dragon, and all of the small arms (realistically, only a turn or two) is going into the dragon mage. While terrain can be used to limit the amount of shooting coming his way, all you need is one turn of close range fire to knock him out. The sun dragon is a dragon, but compare it to the varghulf; notice anything?

Meanwhile, eagles are probably the best 50 points in the entire game, get as many as you can (by that I mean 2 or so)!

Elarion looks lonely on the big monster (as would a regular prince). I'd advocate taking some quick stuff to hit hard and support the rider, if you chose to go that route.

Define effective. Is he more survivable? That depends on the table and the larger context of the army. How much firepower do you think the sun dragon will draw if paired with a star dragon? Especially considering the lack of need for high firepower enemies to eliminate magic defense. The point is that the mage can still fulfill his role while simultaneously putting a powerful flying monster on the board; something many armies will struggle to deal with. Certainly there is no gurantee that he will survive, but that is the nature of the game. As anyone who's brought a dedicated caddy to a game against Dwarves will tell you.

HE do not need full ranks in their specials.

Bring 10 guys. 7 in the front, 3 casualties in the back.

If you can hit someone with 7 that's alot of damage. Hit them on the side with a dragon or fast mover, and you'll be running blocks down in no time.

I guess no one noticed you only have 2 core in a 2000 point list? Normally one needs 3 core...in any army.

You are closer to a threat army now. So that's a plus!

HE are an exception to the normal composition rules.

Yeah i know the dragon mage is vulnerable, if you do the maths then 1 10 man human archer unit should kill him with 2 rounds of shooting but the more they shoot at him then the longer the swordmasters get to advance unmolested and eltharion gets a free advance. Plus with an extra spell he should always be able to pump out 2 spell a turn cos with fire you are bound to get at least 1 magic missile which you cant cast in combat. and with a dragon mage more spells means more free dice.
I do think eltharion and stormwing are excellant value, stormwing has +1ws, +1w, +2I and +1ld over a normal griffon for only 5 extra points, imo he is easily as good as a sun dragon, and has a 5+ ward while eltharion is alive.
I know maybe dropping the dragon mage for a caddy and getting something else like some dragon princes or some chariots would be a good idea but then most armies now have firepower enough to take down 1 ftc but having 2 makes people think and forces them to make a decision. Plus with 1 on each flank there is nowhere to hide.
I do love eagles and with a bit more points they are definately in but i can't see now what i would drop. maybe 1 lions unit though could make way.
I do think that swordmasters do need some numbers as they are quite a target.
Plus what are people's opinions on the lions unit size of 7? the thinking is people wont want to charge even with knights at 7 str6 attacks hitting 1st and the casualties they couse should keep them alive. I intend to use them as anvil units, charge redirectors or flanking units.

Lions can get away with smaller units due to the shooting resistance provided by theor cloaks. Between that and their higher strength I actually prefer them to Swordmasters.