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For those of you old enough to remember when the Imperial Guard was the Imperial Army, Codices were not yet a gleam in Jervis' eye and penny sweets actually cost ONE PENCE! - you may remember that apothecaries (or 'medics' as they were called) were independant characters that wondered (or rode - they could get bikes) around the battlefield doing their thing.

Interestingly, the fluff suggests that this should still be the case (Imperial Armour books always list the apothecarion seperately, giving the number of apothecaries deployed together with their Rhino 'ambulances'), so here's my take on getting them back in the list the way they should be.

Apothecary - Elite choice, up to 2 can be taken as a single FOC slot.

Equipped with - Bolt Pistol, CCW, Narthecium/Reductor, costs 30pts.
May be mounted on a SM bike for 25pts.
If unmounted may be accompanied by up to 4 medical servitors at 8pts each (each servitor is equipped with medical tools that count as 2x CCW's in combat)
Up to 2 servitors can be replaced by orderlies who cost 15pts each (orderlies have a bolt pistol, CCW and Narthecium)
Transport - an Apothecary + retinue may be mounted in a rhino at normal cost.

Stats:
Apothecary - As normal marine but with Ld9 and W2
Orderlies - As scout marines
Servitors - As tech servitors

Special rules
Reductor - Units within 6" of the apothecary will fight harder knowing he is saving the chapters geneseed and so never suffer any penalties to leadership tests.
Narthecium - when a unit within 6" of a model with narthecium takes any unsaved wounds, lay the models down rather than removing them unless the wound was caused by an Instant Death weapon or by a weapon that does not allow armour saves in close combat (remove these as normal). At the start of the apothecaries turn, select ONE model within 6" he will try to heal. Roll one die, on a 5+ the model stands up and fights as normal. For each orderly/servitor assisting add 1 to the roll.
Orderlies can also attempt to heal models, however they are not as skilled and require 6+ (with +1 for each orderly/servitor assisting)

Example - a unit comprising an apothecary, 2x orderlies and 2x servitors is within 6" of a unit that takes 4 casualties. The apothecary, assisted by an orderly, attempts to save one model and needs a 4+ (5+ for the apoth, +1 for the orderly), he rolls a 5 and the model is returned to the unit. The second orderly, assisted by the 2 servitors, attempts to save a second model and also needs 4+ (6+ for the orderly, +2 for 2 servitors), he rolls a 2 and the model is removed. Finally, the 2 'untreated' models are removed as casualties.


Fluffy Goodness!!
The apothecary is a specialist marine (a la techs, chaps, libs etc), the orderlies are combat medics - scouts with an aptitude for medical work who are being trained to become apothecaries themselves. They are trusted to work on injured troops, but lack skill (i.e they get Narthecium but it only works on a 6+) but have not been inducted into the full mysteries of chapter genetics and so do not get the reductor.


I've not tested this yet so the points may be a bit off - if anyone wants to use this feel free to test it out and let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts

I like the Idea

1) Must this be a elite choice at FOC ?

Tech's were elite but did not count on FOC. The same for your apothecary?
Think about a combo: Apo and Tech as entry at HQ, 0-2 each, have retinue,
count as IC, available as HQ add-on like comissars in IG.

2) option to change boltpistol to plasmapistol ?
Standard vehicle extras ? Plus turbo perhaps ?
Not a taxi, only apothecary use it.


Bye

This is the kind've thing we have in our Marine Codex:

0-1 Apothecarion Vexillium:
(The Apothecarion Vexillium does will not count towards the 0-1 limit on Company Apothecaries)

Apothecary - 35 Points - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+/3+(I)
Servo-Med - 5 Points - WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Sv4+

Numbers/Squad: The Apothecarion Vexillium consists of 1-2 Apothecaries chosen as a single Elites choice. They are deployed as a single unit but do not need to be placed together and operate independently. They are not scoring units.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Narthecium and a Reductor.

Options: Each Apothecary may be given any equipment allowed by the Space Marine Armoury, but may not replace their Reductors with another weapon.

Retinue: Each Apothecary may be accompanied by 1-5 Servo-Meds.

Special Rules:

Independent: Apothecaries are Independent Characters but will operate independently during the game. They may not join other units. The only squad they may lead is their Retinue of Servo-Meds.

Emperor’s Shining Light: Apothecaries extremely resolute in battle, and will wade through seemingly insurmountable odds to help a Battle Brother in trouble. Some say the Emperor protects each Apothecary, allowing him to go about his holy duty as the shells rain down around him. Apothecaries, along with their Servo-Meds, are Fearless. Additionally, to represent the form of ‘Divine Intervention’ that protects all Apothecaries, Apothecaries each have a 3+ Invulnerable save.

Tools of the Trade: Apothecaries are tireless heroes in battle, always ready to be at the side of a fallen Marine, either to bring him back from the brink of death or to carefully harvest his gene seed so that the Chapter will live on. All Space Marines within 3” of an Apothecary will receive a 5+ Ignore Injury save. This radius is increased by 1” for each Servo-Med that accompanies the Apothecary. The Apothecary himself does not gain this extra saving throw, and neither do his Servo-Meds. Apothecaries may benefit from another Apothecary’s radius though.

BYE

1hadhq - I like the idea of making apoth's and tech's like IG advisors (it seems to fit more with the fluff than an elites choice!).
As far as options, I assumed the rhino would have access to all normal upgrades, sorry I didn't make that clear. I didn't give the apoth weapon options or armoury access just to avoid people being cheesy and turning a medic into an impromptu tank-hunter! (Because you know it would happen...)

H.B.M.C. - I like your take on it. It looks like we're looking at the same problem from different angles (invulnerable save as opposed to extra wound, fearless instead of ld bonuses). The only thing I would change with your rules is the points cost. Your apoth is definately more powerful (and survivable!) than mine and seems to able to make its points back much more easily. With your rules I'd be tempted to make him 45 rather than 35.
Still like it though

if the servitors are truly training to become apothecaries I would think they would have the BT scout stat line. as I understand it scouts are just marines that chose carapace armor, like Terminator's that choose power armor.

I don't like the idea of a 3+invo save though. if you gave him 2 wounds to represent his own devotion and resilience but if he's shot with a laz cannon, he's going down. I would give him a +5 invo save and can't be pinned, but still entangled.

I always like the idea of a medic running from trench to trench as soldiers cry his name. they took the Tech marine out of the command squad. why would the medic be sitting back when theirs wounds to tend to.

I just made my BT campaign list if you couldn't tell.

H.B.M.C. wrote:This is the kind've thing we have in our Marine Codex:

0-1 Apothecarion Vexillium:
(The Apothecarion Vexillium does will not count towards the 0-1 limit on Company Apothecaries)

Apothecary - 35 Points - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+/3+(I)
Servo-Med - 5 Points - WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Sv4+

WHAT?!?!? a 3+ Inv for 35 points! two wounds and two attacks? these guys could beat up terminators for 5 points less!

Numbers/Squad: The Apothecarion Vexillium consists of 1-2 Apothecaries chosen as a single Elites choice. They are deployed as a single unit but do not need to be placed together and operate independently. They are not scoring units.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Narthecium and a Reductor.

Options: Each Apothecary may be given any equipment allowed by the Space Marine Armoury, but may not replace their Reductors with another weapon.

Retinue: Each Apothecary may be accompanied by 1-5 Servo-Meds.

Special Rules:

Independent: Apothecaries are Independent Characters but will operate independently during the game. They may not join other units. The only squad they may lead is their Retinue of Servo-Meds.

Emperor’s Shining Light: Apothecaries extremely resolute in battle, and will wade through seemingly insurmountable odds to help a Battle Brother in trouble. Some say the Emperor protects each Apothecary, allowing him to go about his holy duty as the shells rain down around him. Apothecaries, along with their Servo-Meds, are Fearless. Additionally, to represent the form of ‘Divine Intervention’ that protects all Apothecaries, Apothecaries each have a 3+ Invulnerable save.

So the emporer likes the apothcaries more than his chaplains? fearless AND A 3+ inv????? for a max of 60 points+wargear? and they can get termie armor for a 2+ armor 3+ inv??????

Tools of the Trade: Apothecaries are tireless heroes in battle, always ready to be at the side of a fallen Marine, either to bring him back from the brink of death or to carefully harvest his gene seed so that the Chapter will live on. All Space Marines within 3” of an Apothecary will receive a 5+ Ignore Injury save. This radius is increased by 1” for each Servo-Med that accompanies the Apothecary. The Apothecary himself does not gain this extra saving throw, and neither do his Servo-Meds. Apothecaries may benefit from another Apothecary’s radius though.

BYE

Is this save like a feel no pain save? so you can make an armor/cover/inv save AND this save? is it invulnerable? please tell us what kind of save this is so we know when it applies!

I very much like this Idea, but id do things a little different.......
Changes are in bold.


0-1 Apothecarion Vexillium:
(The Apothecarion Vexillium does count towards the 0-1 limit on Company Apothecaries)

Apothecary - 60 Points - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+/5+(I)
Servo-Med - 10 Points - WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Sv4+

Numbers/Squad: The Apothecarion Vexillium consists of 1-2 Apothecaries chosen as a single HQ choice. They are deployed as a single unit but do not need to be placed together and operate independently. They are not scoring units.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Narthecium and a Reductor.

Options: Each Apothecary may be given any equipment allowed by the Space Marine Armoury, but may not replace their Reductors with another weapon.

Retinue: Each Apothecary may be accompanied by 1-4 Servo-Meds.

Special Rules:

Independent Characters: Character is a independent character and follows the rules as such.

Emperor’s Shining Light: Apothecaries extremely resolute in battle, and will wade through seemingly insurmountable odds to help a Battle Brother in trouble. Some say the Emperor protects each Apothecary, allowing him to go about his holy duty as the shells rain down around him. Apothecaries may re-roll failed leadership tests and gain a 5+ Inv save.

Tools of the Trade: Apothecaries are tireless heroes in battle, always ready to be at the side of a fallen Marine, either to bring him back from the brink of death or to carefully harvest his gene seed so that the Chapter will live on. All Space Marines Troop choices within 6 inches gain Feel No Pain. Add one inch for every living servo-med in his squad.

Even with the more balanced options and upped points cost I still feel that he is cheap for what he does. I made tools of the trade affect troop choices only to keep people from makeing totally broken combos with Hq's and or terminators.

jp400 wrote:I very much like this Idea, but id do things a little different.......
Changes are in bold.


0-1 Apothecarion Vexillium:
(The Apothecarion Vexillium does count towards the 0-1 limit on Company Apothecaries)

Apothecary - 60 Points - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+/5+(I)
Servo-Med - 10 Points - WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I2 A1 Ld6 Sv4+

Numbers/Squad: The Apothecarion Vexillium consists of 1-2 Apothecaries chosen as a single HQ choice. They are deployed as a single unit but do not need to be placed together and operate independently. They are not scoring units.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol, Narthecium and a Reductor.

Options: Each Apothecary may be given any equipment allowed by the Space Marine Armoury, but may not replace their Reductors with another weapon.

Retinue: Each Apothecary may be accompanied by 1-4 Servo-Meds.

Special Rules:

Independent Characters: Character is a independent character and follows the rules as such.

Emperor’s Shining Light: Apothecaries extremely resolute in battle, and will wade through seemingly insurmountable odds to help a Battle Brother in trouble. Some say the Emperor protects each Apothecary, allowing him to go about his holy duty as the shells rain down around him. Apothecaries may re-roll failed leadership tests and gain a 5+ Inv save.

Tools of the Trade: Apothecaries are tireless heroes in battle, always ready to be at the side of a fallen Marine, either to bring him back from the brink of death or to carefully harvest his gene seed so that the Chapter will live on. All Space Marines Troop choices within 6 inches gain Feel No Pain. Add one inch for every living servo-med in his squad.

Even with the more balanced options and upped points cost I still feel that he is cheap for what he does. I made tools of the trade affect troop choices only to keep people from makeing totally broken combos with Hq's and or terminators.

I like the changes, it feels more balanced (especially taking up a HQ slot), and yes, it still might be cheap for what it does, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

That seems like a good idea, similar to what Apocs do in fluff novels.

Sushicaddy wrote:WHAT?!?!? a 3+ Inv for 35 points! two wounds and two attacks? these guys could beat up terminators for 5 points less!

Assuming you buy them weapons. They don't come with a power weapon, and they're a single T4 model that isn't immune to instant death.

Sushicaddy wrote:So the emporer likes the apothcaries more than his chaplains? fearless AND A 3+ inv????? for a max of 60 points+wargear? and they can get termie armor for a 2+ armor 3+ inv??????

It's a fluff thing, and has never proven to be overpowered. These guys don't kill anything. They support the firebase.

That said, your Terminator Armour comment is interesting, and I had not thought about that. I will look into it, as I don't want them in Terminator Armour. I may even go so far as to remove their access to the armoury. Thankyou for pointing that out.

Sushicaddy wrote:Is this save like a feel no pain save? so you can make an armor/cover/inv save AND this save? is it invulnerable? please tell us what kind of save this is so we know when it applies!

It's a Feel No Pain save, which we call 'Ignore Injury' saves because 'Feel No Pain' sounds stupid.

I'd also like to point out that this is an Elites slot. This is competing with Dreadnoughts, Terminators, Techmarine units and Veterans - all of which are excellent units.

jp400 wrote:(The Apothecarion Vexillium does count towards the 0-1 limit on Company Apothecaries)

Out of context, I can see why you would make that change. Within the context of Codex: Space Marines Revisited however, it doesn't. Every Codex Chapter has a Headquarters branch known as the Apothecarion (check the 3rd Ed Marine Codex and the organisation of the Ultramarines to see what I mean). It sits alongside the Armoury and the Librarius with the head of the Apothecarion being one of the senior members of the Chapter. These is a separate cadre of Apothecaries that are separate from the Company Apothecaries.

In our rules, you can have up to two Command Squads in your army, 1 for each HQ as you'd expect. However, as each Marine army is supposed to represent a single company (plus some reserve, 1st and 10th company elements, plus support from the Armoury/Librarius/Apothecarion), there is only one Apothecary in the Company, therefore only one Company Command Squad can have him. It's the same reaosn why Chaplains and Captains are 0-1 in our lists (there is only 1 Captain and 1 Chaplain per Company).

Finally the Company Apothecary is quite a bit different to the Apothecaries from this unit. For starters, he has no Servo-Meds, he is part of a unit and cannot leave, and is basically a Sergeant.

jp400 wrote:Apothecary - 60 Points - WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+/5+(I)

Why would you pay 60 points for something that will die so easily? Aside from the fact that 40K Revisited has AP2 Sniper Rifles that can pick out people as their targets (as rare as those Sniper Rifles may be), this Apothecary will fold if anything gets fired at him. You would basically have to hide him from combat... and that just doesn't seem right to me. He's supposed to be a heroic figure in white striding from squad to squad, healing who he can and saving the gene seed from those he cannot... no some 60 point waste of time cowering behind a screen of infantry.

jp400 wrote:All Space Marines Troop choices within 6 inches gain Feel No Pain. Add one inch for every living servo-med in his squad.

4+ Ignore Injury? That's pretty powerful. One of the reasons I wanted it to be 5+ was to avoid the 'half of all your shots do nothing' syndrome. Getting an armour/cover save and then the a 5+ save is enough I think. 4+ would certainly make him worth 60 points, yes, but I think he'd go from 'useful' to 'mandatory', especially if he could join units.

jp400 wrote:I made tools of the trade affect troop choices only to keep people from makeing totally broken combos with Hq's and or terminators.

Hence the reason why I made it so he cannot join squads, and gives a 5+ rather than a 4+ save.

BYE

wash-away wrote:if the servitors are truly training to become apothecaries...

The Servitors are just Servitors. They perform tasks as per their programming. Take a look at the 3rd Ed Marine Codex, towards the back, that has the organisation for the Ultramarines. Under Apothecarion you'll see how many non-Company Apothecaries there are, and that there are things called 'Servo-Meds' as part of the department.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

wash-away wrote:if the servitors are truly training to become apothecaries...

The Servitors are just Servitors. They perform tasks as per their programming. Take a look at the 3rd Ed Marine Codex, towards the back, that has the organization for the Ultramarines. Under Apothecaries you'll see how many non-Company Apothecaries there are, and that there are things called 'Servo-Meds' as part of the department.

BYE

I read on one of the posts that they where 'in training' to become apothecaries not servitors so i miss said it.

as far as the terminator thing, "Apothecaries are constantly running to treat the wounded. Because of the restrictive nature of terminator armor they may not equip it." or do a little apothicary symbol next to the things an apothecary can equip much like the little 'T' thats next to things terminators can equip.

with traits coming out I wonder if you could take a m.a.s.h. unit (for lac of a better image) consisting of an apothicary and a servitor squad. kind of like an inquisitor and his retinue. by doing so you could give your army's sergeants the ability to purchase a reductor servo attachment, but because their not specifically trained with it it only allows one friendly model within 6" to reroll the armor save if it doesn't cause instant death or require invo. all the other apothecary rules apply.