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We all know that LOS is one of the more problematic things of the game, there are all forms of atempts to abuse the simple mechanic of checking LOS to gain an advantage.

There is the dramatic pose problem where people demand to be allowed to shoot at models as they can see an arm or that the model is elevated (se raptor models) so on and so forth.

There is the creative posing with squating or crawling models to give additional LOS cover.

There is even the most common leaning model issue where people twist and turn a model to hide it from sight.

The most common atempts to get standardized rules is to ither use the cylinder aproach or the torso/head aproach, nither is very good, the cylinder aproach is hard to define and the torso/head version is discouraging dramatic or interesting poses.

My sugestion this is to create a LOS stick.

Simply take a standard base (1") and glue to it a stick with a brightly coloured sphere on top.

The LOS stick would be well defined and be defined so that it could easilly be created by any gamer in a very short time.

When you need to end a LOS argumant simply replace the target or both target and attacker with LOS sticks then check again, The stick design should be made so that both parties can agree that if the sphere at the top is visable then there is a LOS, if the sphere is not then there is no LOS.

The bright colour of the stick will meen it is alot easier to spot the stick than say a cammo painted guardsman behind a wooded cover while the fixed position of the sphere above the base would meen that nomatter how dramatically and creativelly you have positioned your model he has the same LOS boundries as any other model of its type.

First lets define the most common model, this definition would count for all models that are supplied with a 1" base, I write supplied in bold as creative basing should not be a penalty ither.

My sugestion is that the center of the sphere should be 2cm above the base and the sphere should be 1cm in diameter, this meens the whole thing is 2.5cm plus the hight of the base.
For a plastic cadian guardsman thisa would meen the top of the sphere would be at about nose hight and the bottom at about crotch hight.

Models supplied with the slightly larger base (terminartors, chaos spawns, ork mega nobs...) would have the center of the sphere mounted at 2.5cm above the base and the sphere be 1.5cm i diameter making the top of the sphere 3.25cm above the base.

LOS sticks could be made for most base types as well as for the more common vehicles even if vehicles usually dont have that issue.

Yes, it will slow the game down but not as much as long drawn out discussions about LOS, yes/no.
Yes, in most gaming groups and in atleast 95% of the situations it will not be used but for those last few situations it will be a timesaver.
No, seeing as its a proposed houserule you will not have to use it in your games if you dont want to.

Now then.

Fire away, what do you think, comments, ideas, are my numbers off, how can it be made better?

this will fail because if it is a questionable LoS call then it will be argued that when you remove my model and replace it with the magic ball that you will do so in such a way that you gain that one millionth of a cm in your favor so that you have LoS or vice versa. you have to find a way to do it without touching the minis.

Do like BFG.
Horizontally: Everything is measured form the center of the Base. If the center of the shooter's base can see the center of the target's base it can see it. Subsititue mount for shooter's base. If any portion of the base is blocked by terrain then get the terrain cover save.

Vertically: if the vertical center of the shooting mini (or mount) can see the vertical center of the target mini then it can shoot. If 1/2 the mini is blocked by terrin then the mini gets a terrain cover save.

Best solutions:

1. Don't play against dickholes who are going to try and argue that they have a shot on the tippy tip of a Carnifex's gun or the flap of a Captain's Cape.

If (1) fails (tournaments) see #2

2. Take a minute before the game to review LOS practices with your opponent. Some gaming groups probably do grant LOS for the tip of a sword or something. If you can agree that arms, capes, spikes, etc don't count for LOS then you can save yourselves headaches later. These conversations generally go smoother when both players are calm before a game.

Have a general list of things to agree on before a game:

How far does a model have to be from a window to be able to draw LOS through it? For Dreads and MC's are we measuring LOS from weapon mounts or from the center of the base at "eye" level?

And probably a bunch more that I don't feel like thinking of.

Hmm...40k is turning into golf. Mulligan/No Mulligan? Penalty stroke for out of bounds or not? 18 holes or 9? and so on.

I just don't see the need personally, especially after playing a 5th edition game.

It isn't about: Is the model in LOS or not? In all cases where it is even a question the answer is just: yes I can see the model, he gets the 4+ cover save.

The game is about the times you can mauever your units to get a CLEAN shot (no cover save) at an enemy unit.

The only time a unit is out of LOS is when it is 100% completely clear that the ENTIRE unit is out of LOS and frankly it is pretty clear when that is the case.

When it isn't? The unit gets the cover save and you move on with the game.


I think people are still stuck with the concept of the game from the last edition where keeping stuff out of LOS was of huge strategic importance.

That isn't to say that getting your stuff out of LOS can't be useful in this edition (it can), it just isn't the focus of the game and once that realization kicks in I think it is easier to understand that fighting over LOS really isn't necessary.

Brian P wrote:Best solutions:

1. Don't play against dickholes who are going to try and argue that they have a shot on the tippy tip of a Carnifex's gun or the flap of a Captain's Cape.

Ha, my thoughts exactly!

jabbakahut wrote:

Brian P wrote:Best solutions:

1. Don't play against dickholes who are going to try and argue that they have a shot on the tippy tip of a Carnifex's gun or the flap of a Captain's Cape.

Ha, my thoughts exactly!

Of course the rules specifically don't allow such a thing. You must be able to draw LOS to the model's body (as defined in the ruels: head, torso, arms and legs). Wings, antennae and weapons are all things specifically mentioned in the rulebook as parts of a miniature you cannot draw LOS to.

yakface wrote:

jabbakahut wrote:

Brian P wrote:Best solutions:

1. Don't play against dickholes who are going to try and argue that they have a shot on the tippy tip of a Carnifex's gun or the flap of a Captain's Cape.

Ha, my thoughts exactly!

Of course the rules specifically don't allow such a thing. You must be able to draw LOS to the model's body (as defined in the ruels: head, torso, arms and legs). Wings, antennae and weapons are all things specifically mentioned in the rulebook as parts of a miniature you cannot draw LOS to.

Ok so this is not necessary but I will say it first to diffuse the trolls who may actually bring this up...

Tyranid weapons may be part of the model's arms, legs, wings, body, etc... especially with creative modelling of the bugs. Thus a scything talon is both an arm & a weapon... seeing it would be LOS... (sigh)

In this case go with the basics and keep it simple, the intent I believ is that you can see a major, significant, woundable portion of the model to be affected... not just a big claw or gun. Yes blowing up a bolter in someone's hand or knocking off a living weapon may be a bad thing but it's not the point of the game!

Torso, main arm/leg segment, head. I am sure those are the parts which are necessary to count LOS to a target.