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Hi, I have a tournament coming up and I was wondering what you guys thought about my army list. I am open to all advice.


General of the Empire-171pts (leads 1 unit knights)
-Sword of Power, Talisman of Protection, Shield, Full Plate, Warhorse, Barding

Captain-115 (leads greatswords)
-Sword of Might, Armor of Meteoric Iron, BSB

Battle Wizard-115
-Magic Level 1, 2 dispel scrolls

Warrior Priest-112 (leads other unit of knights)
-Great Weapon, Heavy Armor, Warhorse, Barding

24 Greatswords-213
-Full Command
Detachment
9 free company

25 Swordsmen-220
-Full Command, Shields
Detachment
9 Free Company

25 Halberdiers-190
-Full Command
Detachment
9 Free Company

25 Spearmen – 207
- Standard, Musician

7 Knights-226
-Full Command, Warbanner

5 Knights-201
-Full Command

10 Handgunners - 80

5 Pistoliers - 97

Cannon-100

Cannon-100

Total Points 2249

If your general is going to lead a unit of knights then you might be better off with a Templar grandmaster, he's a better fighter, makes the unit ITP and has the same leadership.

even if you don't change characters, the items need changing - sword of sigismund is more effective than power, Str5 is still good and you strike first, you need a better ward save - either the relic or white cloak

If the priest is leading the other knights give him the icon of magnus - immune to fear is really useful, drop the great weapon for hammer of might or battle and give him a shield

change the unit of halberdiers to swordsmen, they have a better save, initiative and WS - which are better than str4

personally I'd drop the spearmen for upgrades throughout the rest of the list and another unit of handgunners with musician

better to go with two units of 6 knights, pistoliers need a musician as do the handgunners and another pistolier would be useful

cannons are good, I really like a mortar for anti-horde and you can still sorta snipe if your good with guess ranges

hope that helps

PapaSmurf

First of all, something's wrong with your numbers. A units of Greatswords is not less expensive than a unit of Swordsmen numbering only one model more. 2 Knights and a War Banner do not cost a total of 25 points.

And how is a Spearmen unit more expensive than a unit of Halberdiers when the latter has a detachment and the former does not?

Check your math, then come back and see me.

Thanks for your response. I made some changes to my armylist with what you sugested Papasmurf. The total points now add up to 2218, what would you do with the reminder of those points? Also why don't you like 8 knights (4wide 2 deep) in one unit instead of 6 (5 wide with 1 in rear)?

Manfred I had the total points correct but I mistyped the total of the greatswords there.

Grand Master-171pts (leads 1 unit knights)
-Holy Relic, Sword of Sigismund, Shield, Full Plate, Warhorse, Barding

Warrior Priest-150 (leads other unit of knights)
-Sword of Might, Icon of Magnus, Shield, Heavy Armor, Warhorse, Barding

Captain-115 (leads greatswords)
-Sword of Might, Armor of Meteoric Iron, BSB

Battle Wizard-115
-Magic Level 1, 2 dispel scrolls

24 Greatswords-315
-Full Command
Detachment
9 free company

25 Swordsmen-220
-Full Command, Shields
Detachment
9 Free Company

25 Swordsmen-220
-Full Command, Shields
Detachment
9 Free Company

6 Knights-203
-Full Command, Warbanner

6 Knights-178
-Full Command

10 Handgunners - 85
-Musician

10 Handgunners - 85
-Musician

5 Pistoliers - 97
-Musician

Cannon-100

Cannon-100

Total Points 2218

I usually run my knights in units of 6, add a character and use them 7 wide, a little more finesse needed in set-up and movement but US14 is usually enough after the charge. I also upgrade the unit with the war banner to inner circle but your out of special slots

Bump the pistoliers to 6, makes them more survivable and you get 2 more shots

Can't have 2 swords of might, keep it on the priest and give the captain either the sword of battle or striking

still think that captain on barded horse with full plate and white cloak is better than meteoric armour but thats up to you

if you've got 25 extra points add a 5 man detachment to one of your blocks and run them at the enemy, force him to react and allow you to disrupt his plans

Glad I could help

PapaSmurf

Okay just some quick thoughts.

Since you have a tournament coming up, I'm not story-typing these... so neyh.

Empire Knights are cheap enough that you can get units of 8 (9 in total with the hero-class character) without sinking an obnoxious amount of points into them. And most Empire Battalions come with an 8-pack of knights, so the math is easy in that way too. 8 Knights gives you a pretty good Unit Strength too, sometimes nullifying medium-sized infantry units.

Anyway, first, the Captain in the Greatswords doesn't really add anything, other than a couple of magical attacks, since your Captain doesn't have a magical banner. The Greatswords already have LD 8 and are stubborn. If you want to keep the Captain with them, I'd suggest having him use his BSB-magical banner ability. Otherwise, all you're really getting from him is an expensive Emperor's Champion. Banner of the Deamonslayers actually work well on the Greatswords, as it lets them cause fear on a charge.

I would suggest that the Empire Captain would work well on a Pegasus, with full plate, Sheild, and Lance. Then he can hunt war machines and overly-brave mages.

Back to the Greatswords... why such a huge unit of them? You're paying a lot of points for +3 CR. It's kinda like getting a full second rank of knights for +1 CR. I'd drop the Greatswords down to about 15 - 18. With the points you save that's a goodly chunk of the cost of a 3rd unit of knights. Or, you could upsize your Pistoliers to 6 strong, and give them an Outrider Champion with Repeater Pistol. Or, if your group allows for DOW, use the points you free up for a Bronzino's Galloper Gun.

For your second unit of knights, you might want to consider the Steel Standard. Quite often even that extra 1 inch of charge range can let you hit something in the flank instead of the front.

Now, I will disagree with PapaSmurf here. I've never really been impressed with the Icon of Magnus. Why? Because it just makes your guys resistant to fear... it doesn't make the _cause_ fear. LD 8 is pretty solid, and should let your guys pass a reliable number of fear checks... especially when you consider that you only need 1 of your models within your general's 12" LD radius, and can be testing for fear off LD 10. I'd save the points, and drop the Icon of Magnus.

Just as an aside, with only 1 wizard, and 2 dispell scrolls, your magic defense is weak for a tournament army. You might want to consider dropping your Imperial Captain for a second scroll caddy.

I'm also going to disagree with PapaSmurf about the Templar Grand Master.

First, your Grandmaster is the wrong point cost... he should be way more than 171 points for the gear he has listed.

Anyway, for a boatload more points you basically get only marginally better combat abilitie, and immunity to psychology. Problem is, Immunity to Psychology does not equal Immunity to Panic, which, has been my experience is more often a serious problem. What I would do, instead, is get an Elector Count (General of the Empire) equipped the same, and save some serious points... that'll also give you access to a second magical banner for one of your line companies.

If you did want to keep the Templar Grand Master, I would actually give him the Holy Icon (for the ward save), and Laurel's of Victory. If you can keep your Grand Master fighting line-soldiers, or enemy heros, those Laurels will really start to add up in terms of +CR. On a charge, he'll be able to regularly offer +6 CR just by himself, and +4-6 during a challenge or subsequent turns of melee.

For the points you have left over, you might want to consider some DOW mercenaries (if your group allows it), or some flagellants. For the DOW, units like Mengil's Manflayers, Voland's Venators, Bronzino's Galloper Gun, dwarven heavy crossbowmen, or Long Drong's Dwarven Pirates would work great with what you already have... Shoot, even the Gryphon Legion (kislevite knights) would be a solid boost.

If you pick the flagellants, expect them to cause zero wounds.... but they'll give you a tarpit, that your knights and greatswords can then exploit to hit enemy flanks from.

Or, with the fact you have two, handgunner units, you might want to consider some marksmen with hochland long rifles. Two long rifle shots won't generate much real effect on the battle field (it takes about 4 to reliably cause a model to be taken off)... but what it does do is it plays the psy-ops war with your opponent. Two cannons for big hits + two rifles who can call out their targets = makes enemy confused, and can possibly cause them to focus too much on these smaller, expendable units.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts.

I got to witness the absolute Horror and almost unstoppable Juggernaut that is a Nugle Daemon Army list at a tournament this past weekend...

It wasn't pretty.

A Great Unclean One, The Tallyman and a Herald, a bunch of Plague Bearers, Nurglings and a unit Beast of Nurgle and a unit of Furries.

The Tallyman and the Herald hide in a big unit of PB's.

The Great Unclean One advances, all the while cranking out stands of Nurglings and the whole army (except the Furries) regenerates...

How would an Empire army best deal with this beast?

Fire mages.

Borrow some Bretonnian archers.

Borrow some dwarf flame-ready war machines.

Flagellants.

Cry to Mommy.

Er...

Fire Mages for sure, but other than that...

It will be tough.

It is times like that that make we wonder about GW's play testing.

(OK, not really but, you know...)

Wait, my brilliant scheme of using different lists to combine into a Captain Planet force (or Voltron!) to beat a all-regenerating force that was obviously playtested thoroughly...wait, it's T5? With a 5+ invulnerable?

W T F

Ha!

Exactly!