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I was reading the FAQ and wasn't sure of the attak craft bit ...

How many attak craft markers - I guess that means groups of X fighters/bombers/assaulters - can I have in play at one time if I have 1 styx and 1 devastation? That's 4 total launch bays, or 10 total "strength" of craft.

"When launching ordnance, no more attack craft markers can be in play that the number of available launch bays. Tyranid ships may launch up to twice this number. This total must take into account reductions caused by ships being crippled or lost in battle. If more attack craft remain in play that there are available launch bays, the owning player may not launch any ordnance that turn, though ordnance in play may be “recalled” by immediately removing it from play in order to launch more attack craft."

So ... 4 total markers (of varying number of tiny ships)?

And a side question, if I launch ordnance with a ship is it now on Reload Ordnance special orders (for influencing enemy ships, taking a special order, etc)? Or does that order only "count" once it's actually rolled for and reloads the ordnance?

- Salvage

EDIT -- Both questions sound dumb to me, but just want to clarify before I rock out some space combat tonight.

I'm not actually sure what your asking here.

A Styx and a Devastation gives you 10 launch bays. That mean you can have up to 10 markers total on the table at a time. These markers can be any variation of fighters/bombers/assault boats, but the total can never be greater than 10. (so, for example, you could have 5 fighters, 3 bombers and 2 assault boats) If one or both of the ships is crippled, the launch (and therefor control) ability of the ship is reduced by half. If you control more markers on the table than you have control capacity, you cannot launch additional waves until it is below your maximum.

I too was confused about what exactly the question was, but I think I've spotted the misapprehension here, in the following two lines:

Boss_Salvage wrote:
That's 4 total launch bays, or 10 total "strength" of craft.

Boss_Salvage wrote:
So ... 4 total markers (of varying number of tiny ships)?

The only thing here that is 4, is the number of total locations where the two ships have Launch Bays- the two sides of the two ships.

The "Strength" rating listed for a ship's Launch Bays is how many Launch Bays it has in that location. Each Launch Bay can launch 1 squadron of whatever type of craft, and each squadron gets its own marker.

So, the Styx has 3 Launch Bays on each side, and the Devastation has 2 Launch Bays on each side.

Boss_Salvage wrote:
And a side question, if I launch ordnance with a ship is it now on Reload Ordnance special orders (for influencing enemy ships, taking a special order, etc)? Or does that order only "count" once it's actually rolled for and reloads the ordnance?

The latter. You don't automatically go on the Reload Ordnance special order when you launch ordnance. Other than Brace For Impact, a ship only goes on special orders in the Movement Phase. There will be some times when you'll launch ordnance in one turn and choose not to Reload Ordnance the next turn because there's some other Special Order which is more vital for that ship at the time.

Devs launch 4, styx 6, you can have a total of 10 markers on the board.

this ten can be 1 dreadclaw and 9 fighters if you like, or it can be 10 bombers, or any combination that adds up to ten!

note that this does not mean your ships have to keep track of which markers come from them. if you lose the 4 from the dev but you were only able to reload from the styx, the styx can launch 4 more but will need to reload again later.

Sorry if I was confusing, but it sounds like I was thinking along the right track.

Here's another ordnance question, when you launch a wave of ordnance - let's say 6 bombers from the styx in one wave - do you put down 6 bomber markers (the BFG card ones)? Or just 1 bomber marker but note that it has S6 (currently)? Does it matter that the marker has 3 little ships on it?

And another one, when a wave travels through blast markers do you roll 1 D6 for the whole wave, no matter the strength / number of craft markers (see above)? And 1 6 wipes the whole wave out, right? That assumes you roll once per wave that encounters 1+ blast.

In other news, I had a great time taking my new 1000 chaos fleet out for a spin against my friend's chaos. He had never played BFG and it's been about 8 years since I've played, but we both got the hang of it I think. I gutted his fleet for the loss of a carnage and an iconoclast, so in response he built a tyranid fleet for our next throwdown

- Salvage

In terms of representation you can do whatever your gaming group likes, but it makes sense that a larger wave takes up more space and is harder to maneouver through blast markers and such. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to have as many markers, next to one another in some form, as are in your wave.

And yes, they go through blast markers, get shot by standard weapons, etc. as one. Roll a 6 and boom! Gone!

On the plus side, enemy turrets fire only once at the whole wave as well.

Alright, what an ordnance 'marker' is vs a wave is still causing some problems ...

How many fighters does it take to take out 1 wave of bombers? For example, can a wave of 1 fighter take out a wave of 4 bombers? Or do the fighters actually remove enemy ordnance on a marker by marker basis (i.e. it would take 4 fighter markers [in 1 wave] to take out 4 bomber markers [in 1 wave])?

Or an even more specific example. A cruiser with strength 4 bays has two waves of bombers approaching, both at strength 4 (4 markers worth). Can the cruiser spit out 2 waves of 2 fighters and so take down both bomber waves? Or would doing so just result in 2 waves of 2 bombers hitting it?

- Salvage

It's all very simple actually.

Each marker takes out one marker....period.


A wave of six bombers (six markers in contact with each other) can be taken out by....

6 waves of 1 fighter
3 waves of 2 fighters
2 waves of 3 fighters
1 wave of 6 fighters

Each marker takes out one marker (when going fighters against bombers/A-boats)....waves do not matter.

The only time this doesnt apply is when fighters tackle torpedoes.

A single fighter marker, not wave, takes out a WAVE of torpedoes regardless of its size.

A single fighter marker takes out a single torpedo....or ANY size wave of multiple torpedoes.

If a WAVE of 4 Fighters hits a wave of 8 torpedoes, remove 1 fighter and remove the ENTIRE wave of torpedoes....leaving a wave of 3 fighters.

Clear as mud?

Ah! Well then, that does shake things up for how I've been playing, though the number of times I've run up against fighters is pretty small. On the torpedoes, I would not have guessed the last bit, where the fighters all remain save the 1 marker that took all those torps out.

Thanks DeadS.

- Salvage

EDIT -- What about thunderhawks (and eldar fighters, etc) that act as fighters that hang around on 4+? They still just remove one marker's worth, but I suppose half the time you just put them where the enemy marker was? So they can't just keep taking out markers in one phase until they roll 1-3.

Boss_Salvage wrote:

EDIT -- What about thunderhawks (and eldar fighters, etc) that act as fighters that hang around on 4+? They still just remove one marker's worth, but I suppose half the time you just put them where the enemy marker was? So they can't just keep taking out markers in one phase until they roll 1-3.

Nope, they can make only a single attack or kill a single marker (or wave of torpedoes) per turn.

(Space Marines suck in Gothic by the way)

On the offense, yes, they stop when they hit a marker and they're done, whether they stay in play or not.

But if someone attacks them, don't they stay in play as long as they keep rolling 4+s?

And I hear that a lot about marines on message boards, that they suck, but from people that have played against them more than I have they say they're really brutal. Why are they so terrible?

From the games I've observed, Space Marines in Gothic don't strictly suck, they're just a very hard army to play.

They're one of those groups that, if you just grab the ships and decide to go, you're going to lose horribly. But if you're a good player and know what you're capable of (and what your opponent is capable of) you will tend to rip him apart in short order.

good lord this sounds confusing.

i mean...

generic helpful battlefleet-gothic statement, salvage