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I've fallen totally out of touch with GW gaming the past few years, but periodically I get the urge to get back into it. Recently I've been kicking around the idea of making one of those undead armies that has some sort of spell dispenser at its heart then scads and scads of skeletons. I remember at one point armies such as those were rather hellacious (pardon the expression).

Still true? I don't know the status of the new army books or rules or such, so the question is, is an army of a character (or two or three) plus zillions of skellies any good these days? If so, which one is the best? Thanks.

You are probably looking at Tomb Kings if you like Skeletons. Never played with/against them so can't answer how good they are.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Going w/ Ozy here....Tomb Kings are your army.

Casket of souls...Tomb Price/King w/ the liche priest and you are sitting pretty. Nasty trick to do? Take a large unit(think 15 of em) of the Light Cavalry that TK have and flank someone....unit strength 30 not including whatever is in the front and you will wreck peoples day. Just remember...you will have that 1 turn...that ONE TURN where your magic MUST get off to really slap someone down, if they know that and are prepared...you might lose a few matches

Tomb kings or vampire counts will do for your purposes. Large blocks of fear causing units backed up by nasty magic is in both armies. VC have a more recent book, and are probably the powerful. But TK still are a dangerous army in the hands of a player who knows how to get the most out of the movement and magic phases. TKs lack combat punch, so getting static res on you side is really important. Knocking off rank bonus with shooting supports this strategy. VC has some better cc units, but they pretty much don't have a shooting component. The combat power of the vamps themselves largely make up for this.

I think what you're looking for actually sounds largely like Vampire Counts, not Tomb Kings.

Vampire Counts revolve around one or two extremely elite characters, with a gigantic army of skeletons/zombies/ghouls at their disposal (Though generally, most of these units are meat...er...bone shields). Yes, they are sorely lacking in the ranged department, but you won't find more powerful or customizable characters anywhere else.

Tomb King's core is more balanced (Generally solid units and enough ranged attacks to go around), though they don't have Characters that can even begin to touch on the power of Vampire Counts (Generally, a Vampire requires a beatdown from a plethora of units before they will go down for the count....ahah, bad pun). This doesn't exactly sound like the battle aesthetic you're going for, but if you're into Egyptian themes, then I'd say go for it. You won't have any really glaring weaknesses here like you do with the Counts, but it won't fit your ideal army (besides having...well...all skeletons).

Chrysaor686 wrote:I think what you're looking for actually sounds largely like Vampire Counts, not Tomb Kings.

Yes, I think you are right.

Currently, what is the best VC list that relies just on a few hugely powerful vampires and a ton of summoned or fielded undead?

depends how you want to win cc.

If you want to win on wounds.....go for ghouls.
Static, go for skellies
You want flankers? Raise some zombies, Sceptre says minimum of 10 zombies off every raise dead....negate ranks much?
plus raise dead is 12" no line of sight needed

if you want this list, you need manfred with skull staff and sceptre

he is really good lol

Now, I don't have the VC Army Book, so I couldn't give you an exact list, but from what I've fought against, sounds like you're wanting a Necrarch Vampire or two (Best magic users/summoners). And if you want lots and lots of units, go zombies. Five points per model. One of the cheapest units in the game, and actually worth the points (They might have somewhat low stats but they cause fear, as far as I know). Sure, their WS sucks pretty badly, but you can field a ton of them to make up for that. Plus, the number of zombies you can field per unit block is really high.

Skeletons are 7 points, and are equipped with a spear and shield, but otherwise have the same stats as a zombie. If you want your army to a tiny bit more resilient and combat effective, go skeletons.

Ghouls are beasts on the charge, but they cost 9 points each (and their WS and Movement is still terrible).

If you want a little bit more speed to your army, Dire Wolves have a ridiculous movement speed for a core unit. Nine inches (!!). Nice for tieing up or taking out long range units while your zombies or skellies work their way towards them (from what I can guess). Ten points each though.

Bat swarms really aren't worth it. I would much rather spend fifty (!!) points on ten zombies or five Dire Wolves, as it almost results in the same thing (besides being able to focus all your attacks on one target).

Grave guard are a nice special unit, as they only cost 10 points each and have heavy armor and 8 leadership. They seem way more worth it than ghouls.

Don't really know about much else.

You’re thinking of the old book. Zombies now have SUBSTANTIALLY worse stats than skeletons, and cannot be joined by characters. They are, however, super-cheap and the only troop type of which you can raise completely new units. Necrarchs don’t exist in anymore from a rules perspective, either. Any vampire can select powers from any of the bloodlines, which now have more generic names like “The Martialle” and “The Arkayne”.

Hey Bugs! I think you’re on the right track with the VCs. You’ll probably want skellies and zombies for your summoning horde. Ghouls are good too, but skellies are slightly better for the massed “win by CR” approach, and the summoning powers now make it better to focus on one or two types of rank and file undead rather than taking all three.

I’ll see if I can dig up a good example list.

Okay, here are a few army lists I dug up from recent posts. Some of them are 2000pts, and some are 2250, which is the more common Independent GT game size now. These and a read through the current army book should give you some idea of what you want.

Vampire Lord: Level 3, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll, Lord of the Dead, some other stuff.
Vampire Thrall: Dread Knight, Lord of the Dead, Book of Arkhan.
Wight King: BSB, cavalry kit, NightShroud, Sword of Kings.
20 Zombies
20 Ghouls: Ghast
20 Skellies: Full command, War Banner?
12 Skellies: Full command
2x 5 Dire Wolves
5 Fell Bats
9 Black Knights: Full command, barding, Banner of the Barrows.
4 Wraiths & 1 Banshee
Varghulf
------------
Vampire Lord: Level 3, Zombie Dragon, Wristbands of Black Gold, Book of Arkhan, Red Fury, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Sword of Might.
Vampire Thrall: Summon Ghouls, Dark Acolyte, Flayed Hauberk, Sword of Battle, Talisman of Lycni.
Vampire Thrall: Summon Ghouls, Dread Knight, Helm of Command, Black Periapt, BSB.

3x 5 Dire Wolves
10 Ghouls: Ghast.
14 Ghouls: Ghast
20 Zombies
6 Fell Bats
5 Black Knights: barding, standard, musician, War Banner.
Varghulf
4 Cairn Wraiths & 1 Banshee

------------
Vampire Lady 465, lvl 4, Master of the Black Arts, Summon Ghouls, Helm of Commandment, Skull Staff, mounted on Nightmare
Vampire (SvC) 188 , Level 2, Summon Ghouls, Book of Arkhan, Nightmare
Wight BSB 245 , Drakenhof, mounted on barded steed
Vampire (S) 145 , Level 2, Summon Ghouls
10 Ghouls - 88, Ghast
10 Ghouls - 88, Ghast
10 Ghouls - 88, Ghast
10 Ghouls - 88, Ghast
5 Dire Wolves (DW) 40
5 Dire Wolves (DW 2) 40
20 Grave Guard 335
Full Command, Great Weapons, Banner of the Barrows
1 Varghulf 175
------------
Vamp Lord - Gen, Lvl 3, Sword of Might, Carstein Ring, Tailsman of the Lycni, Infinite Hatred, Red Fury, Walking Death
Vamp - Sword of Striking, Flayed Hauberk, Flying Horror, Summon Creatures of the Night
Vamp - Great weapon/Heavy Armour, Ghoulkin, Book of Arkhan
Necro - Innvoc, Vanhels, Scroll
4x 19 Ghouls incl Ghast
3x 5 Dire Wolves
2x 3 Fell Bats
Varghulf
5 Wraiths incl Banshee
--------------
Vampire lord 445pts;
Level 3, Lord of the dead, master of the black arts, forbidden lore
Dispel scroll, Helm of Commandment, Book of Arkhan
Vampire 190pts; Extra level, Lord of the dead, Scroll, Black periapt
Necromancer 110pts; 1 x Extra Spell, 2 Power stones
Necromancer 110pts; 1 x Extra Spell, 2 Power stones
14 Skeletons, Full command 140pts
14 Skeletons, Full command 140pts
20 Zombies, Standard & Musician 92pts
3 x 5 Dogs, 1 champion 130pts
5 Fell Bats 100pts
5 Blood Knights 275pts
5 Blood Knights 275pts

I´ve been toying with TK recently so I´ll put my list here too.

2000 pts. (1990 actual)

Queen Khalida 420.
Liche Priest (Hierophant) 165, Staff of Sorcery.
Liche Priest 140, Dispel Scroll.
Liche Priest (mounted) 173, Hieratic Jar, Dispel Scroll.

40 SK 410, Full command, Undead Legion Banner, hweapon+shield.
20 SK 225, Full command, bows, poisoned arrows.
20 SK 225, Full command, bows, poisoned arrows.
5 Light Cav 80, bows, poisoned arrows.
5 Light Cav 80, bows, poisoned arrows.
3 Carrion 72.

or if you prefer a heavier punch drop one scroll and change the Carrion for 3 Chariots. (1999pts)

5 Light Cav 70, bows.
5 Light Cav 70, bows.
3 Chariots 126, bows, poisoned arrows.

Khalida and one priest go into the main unit and keep close to the archers. The archers try to outshot anything inside a 60cm radious (and with a guaranteed minimun of 70 poisoned shots a turn probably can) while the cav waits fo flank charges and the carrions hunt warmachines.

M.

Thanks Ragnar, exactly what I was looking for!

Sorry they're not all skellie-heavy. The ghouls are popular lately as an alternative, more killy block option. But they don't get armor or command other than the Ghast (champion).

Still, any of the above lists should work pretty decently, swapping most of the ghouls or zombies for skellies.

Oh, and you're welcome! And Happy Holidays!