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Made in us
Squishy Squig




What is your opinion on dreds vs. kans?
Pros, Cons, of each and overall winner?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
without experience with either I cant tell, but what Ive heard dreds are cc beasts, and kans are a shooty mekanized wall
so am I right in my assumptions, or are they basically a cheap and expensive version of the same thing?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/08 03:59:42


 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Atlanta

It really depends on what you want to be doing with each. I've been experimenting with adding some stompin' stuff to my green tide for 'Ard Boyz this year, and here's a summary of my experiences:

A Deff Dread and a unit of 3 Killa Kanz will set you back around the same number of points, so I compare the effectiveness of 1 Dread to a squadron of 3 Kanz.

Survivability vs. shooting: So long as you're in range of a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field, the Kanz are just as survivable, if not more so, than the Dread against shooting- Dread requires one penetrating hit that rolls a 5+ and failing the 4+ save to be destroyed, but without putting the big mek in danger to repair the Dread, the immobilized result on a 4 makes it fairly useless. Derivation skipped for clarity, the Dread is taken out of the fight statistically within 4 penetrating hits. The Kanz, while slightly more vulnerable due to the lower armor, can still be effective with one member of the squadron functioning, allowing the unit to take an average of 12 penetrating hits before being completely stopped, and also can keep moving more often, thanks to the vehicle squadron rules allowing them to treat Crew Stunned results as Crew Shaken. Kanz 1, Dread 0.

Shooting effectiveness: 3 Kanz with 3 guns and a better ballistic skill are obviously going to do more damage with shooting than 1 dread with 2 guns, and while I haven't tried them, I've heard that grotzookas (which I'm fairly sure are only available to Kanz) can tear apart infantry. I can't say shooting is ever the goal of my stompy elements of the army, but it's a valid selection I suppose. Kanz 2, Dread 0.

Anti-Vehicle close combat: The Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons on each type are strength 10, and weapon skill doesn't matter here, always hitting vehicles on the same value. While the Deff Dread can theoretically take 4 of these, the 3 on the Killa Kanz are easier to protect until they get in close since you can allocate hits to Kanz that have already lost theirs if you take additional hits. Against another Dreadnought, I would say advantage Deff Dread, but this issue is largely a push. Kanz 3, Dread 1.

Anti-Infantry close combat: Higher weapon skill, tougher armor to try and shrug off power fists and monstrous creature hits, the Deff Dread definitely wins this category for me. Kanz 3, Dread 2.

Force Org utility: Being able to take a Deff Dread as a troop choice may sound silly since it can't hold objectives (as it isn't infantry), but I think this is a nice bonus. My current list includes a wall of 6 Killa Kanz and a Deff Dread, followed closely by a Big Mek with Kustom Force Field riding in a Battle Wagon, and all the green muscle I can fit on the table after that (think it came out to 102 Boyz, 10 Nobz, a Warboss, 2 Trukks, and 12 Kommandos w/Snikrot in 2250 points this weekend). I get by with this just barely, having 5 true troop selections (30 Boyz, 30 Boyz, 30 Boyz, 12 Boyz, 10 Nobz) plus the Deff Dread as a Troop choice, using the Kanz and Battlewagon as my 3 Heavy Support. With the way this list runs, I would prefer 3 more Kanz, but I don't really want to put the Nobz on foot or in the Mek's Battlewagon, so being able to sneak in the Deff Dread as Troop selection #6 fills that gap nicely. Kanz 3, Dread 3.

Overall, no clear winner for me. Each has its own set of potential uses, and I use the two types interchangeably based on what I expect to face, and what I want to do with them.

Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. -- Sun-tzu
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Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




Hanging out on the Great Plains

For shooting go Killa kan, for stomping go Deff Dread.



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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The land of cotton.

I run a Kan Wall list with six Kans and two Deff Dreds and it works nicely. They compliment each other well, the Kans shooting and supplying a screen for the Dreds and then the Dreds moving in for the kill. I run three Kustom MegaBlastas and three Rokkits on the Kans. 6 S8 AP2 or AP3 shots make short work of most vehicles and instakill S4 opponents.

It's quite amusing to see your opponents face as he blasts away at the lump of Kans and Dreds marching up the field with a Big Mek supplying KFF coverage. If he targets the Kans, there's three to spread hits around. If he targets the Dreds, they have higher armor. Everyone gets an obscured save. Of the shots that do hit and manage to do anything, half bounce off.

Once my opponent poured everything into the Kans and then to his horror realized the 4 DCCW Deff Dred was now within charge range of his Land Raider, which just sat there firing away the previous turn. Land Raider went bye bye.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/09 16:53:10


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on a Boar





Galveston County

I am currently running 9 kans, 2 dreads in a Mek List.

I can't tell you how many times my opponent has thought killing the def dread was the better option, only to have my squad rip open his pretty little transports.

Biggest issue I've faced lately is the amount of melta's in different army lists. But even then, if you lose one kan, you still have 2 more.

Grotzookas are nice, but they're only 18" range and Kans don't get to WAAGH since they're grots, but on average they're the ONLY thing in your army BS3.

No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
 
   
Made in us
Major






far away from Battle Creek, Michigan

I run a list that has 9 killa kans and 1 deff dredd armed with two skorchas and two DCCW. The Deff Dredd hardly EVER sees action. It stomps/runs toward the opponent for three turns and then get blown to hell. Kill kans are so much better all around. Granted, when simple jack the Deff Dredd does unload with his two skorchas and then charges (which happens about once every ten games) it is pure carnage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Malecus wrote:
Force Org utility: Being able to take a Deff Dread as a troop choice may sound silly since it can't hold objectives (as it isn't infantry), but I think this is a nice bonus.


Yes. I'm building up a battlewagon list and all my heavy choices will be taken by the BWs. With the big mek I can add the deff dredd as a troop choice. I'm not sure how a BW/Dredd list would work but it would be fun to try.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/06/09 18:47:00


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