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So...it's a VERY simple question. The Tau Ion Cannon that can be fitted onto the Hammerhead MBT of the Tau, what is it good for? I mean, it's like putting a heavy stubber on a tank instead of it's main gun. For those of you who don't know what an Ion cannon is, I will post the rules below. Please, any ideas? I mean It looks good and I've always wanted to use it...but is it worth it...

ION CANNON: Range: 60"-STR 7- AP 3- Heavy 3

If you think that Tau is too easy to win as?
The Ion cannon is 35 points less than a Railgun, so if you are really short on points it is an option.

The only reason could be if you are short on points. Clearly it is an inferior weapon.

Its a *different* weapon, not an inferior weapon.

Ion Cannons are for killing Marines, anything necron, Carnifexes, and it can take down most vehicles too. Personally, I rarely take a Hammerhead; how many times have you had a hammerhead sit through a game and do nothing because its single shot every turn doing nothing because you keep missing?

If you want anti-tank, take a team of Broadside Battlesuits. Twin-linked STR10 AP1 shots, you can stick a target lock in there to attack different targets; the only thing the Hammerhead Railgun has is a submunition round. At STR6 Ap4, you're not scaring anything; Your other infantry killers can do just as well; I think any army that doesn't have a Shas'o or a Shas'el with a FAB gun in it is doing something wrong. =p

Tau are pretty much played one of two ways: Mobile or Gunline.

If you're playing a gunline and don't have enough Broadsides to fill out your heavy support (and you don't like snipers), a hammerhead with an Ion cannon is a long distance MEQ killer, which is nowhere else in the Tau armory. I'm a big fan of taking suits with Fusion/Plasma, but they're weighing in at 12-24", not across the whole table.

As a Player of Drop Pod Space Wolves it is very annoying to have to deal with Ion Hammerheads as they are often parked far away from anything squishy and totaly yo up as far as killing marines is concerned.

I think they are great for small games.
However, I agree with OP.
I've used it a couple of times with little effect.
Dashofpepper is right only one shot on a hammerhead isn't all that great, but the fact the tank is hard to kill (good armour + destortion pod) and the Sub. round is a great option to have if your up against hoard type army in a tourny situation.
I'm not saying I'm right, just this is what works for me.

I usually take the Hammerhead over Broadsides any day. Broadsides have virtually a low survivability with some of the newer stuff being released for the Imperium. My Tactic as of late has been to take a small tank platoon of Hammerheads and harass the enemy I was thinking Two rail-gun and one ion cannon. Everyone tends to forget that a hammerhead can move and fire without much any problem, so while the railguns kill the heavier stuff ((or lighter infantry depending on SUB or not)), the Ion cannon can hit things like gun emplacements and fast attack.

A unit of 2 broadsides with a drone controller and two shield drones is one of the toughest, most reliable anti-tank units in the game.

That may be true, but I like hammerheads too much.

I've been using the ion cannon lately and it didn't perform too badly in my last game. It made dropping Plague Marines a lot easier anyway.

Sidstyler wrote:That may be true, but I like hammerheads too much.

I've been using the ion cannon lately and it didn't perform too badly in my last game. It made dropping Plague Marines a lot easier anyway.

That's kind of what I meant. If you want railguns, take broadsides. An Ionhead can bust up low-durability-high-priority targets such as War Walkers and Land Speeders really well, as well as being decent against Rhinos, Chimeras, and Trukks, and good against heavy infantry.

Many people think Ionheads suck and don't use it. (Plus, Ion cannon is really ugly). Ionheads are great for popping AV10-11 vehicles, artillery etc. medium toughness targets. IIRC even at AV12 Ion cannon is more points-effective than Railgun, or at least close.

Counter-argument is that Tau can buy suits (for example, Deathrain = TL Missile pod) which do same job for even cheaper. Nevertheless, I think that Ionhead's combination of mobility & survivability often give it advantage over the suits. IMO, at smaller points games (less than 1500) Ionhead is often better value than Railhead.

Back in 4th I used to run 2 rail heads and an ion head.

One reason was fo variety.. the other was for people to complain less.

I remember seeing a chart somewhere over on Advanced Tau Tactica of derived values and chances to destroy a vehicle of a given AV with a Railhead and Ionhead, and due to the multiple shots the Ionhead did greater damage below AV 13. Granted, this was during 4th edition so the charts were a little different, so I won't bother trying to find the ancient post, but you might be able to locate an updated version over there if you poke around enough.

From the receiving end (since my Tau days are long past) if I'm fielding anything out of my collection other than a Land Raider or a Stompa, I can tell you for sure I'd rather be seeing a railgun fired at me.

Here's one for you - if you have a heavy support choice consisting of 3 Broadsides, one of which is a team leader, a target lock, advanced stabilization systems (or more drone controllers) and shield drones....

You've got 3 twin-linked Railgun shots per turn, and the ability to take down multiple vehicles per turn. They're vastly superior in vehicle killing power compared to a Hammerhead with a Railgun. Adding a Railhead as a second heavy support choice is foolish at that point. Snipers or Ion cannon are the way to go.

Maybe I just haven't been playing against the right people, but the damage an Ioncannon puts out just doesnt seem worth as a MBT weapon. Unless your opponent keeps his 3+ armor units out of cover, or has really expensive 3+ armor units (like GKs), it never seems to do enough damage. If your shooting at targets in cover, each targets got to be worth 22pts for it to make its points back.

I've had better luck with Railguns - even if broadsides are better anti-tank.

Dashofpepper wrote:Here's one for you - if you have a heavy support choice consisting of 3 Broadsides, one of which is a team leader, a target lock, advanced stabilization systems (or more drone controllers) and shield drones....

You've got one expensive-ass unit that costs twice as much as your hammerhead?

Sidstyler wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Here's one for you - if you have a heavy support choice consisting of 3 Broadsides, one of which is a team leader, a target lock, advanced stabilization systems (or more drone controllers) and shield drones....

You've got one expensive-ass unit that costs twice as much as your hammerhead?

And can take more anti-tank missiles, puts out 3 times as many shots with better accuracy, and is easier to put in cover.

I've been thinking that the Ionhead would work really well in the Tau Piranha Swarm army that's been discussed of late, since the Piranha's ring plenty of anti tank fire power and their drones bring mass anti infantry firepower, the Ionheads, can work to break heavy infantry, without the cost of the Railheads.

Jack

Sidstyler wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Here's one for you - if you have a heavy support choice consisting of 3 Broadsides, one of which is a team leader, a target lock, advanced stabilization systems (or more drone controllers) and shield drones....

You've got one expensive-ass unit that costs twice as much as your hammerhead?

Yep I do. It does a lot MORE than a hammerhead, and in my humblest of opinions, is worth every point of it. I think broadsides make up the cornerstone of a Tau army, and if you mesh them with your army well, make you nigh unstoppable.

But then again, I'm just a random guy on the internet right? =p On the other hand, out of my last 50 or so games with my Tau, I've lost...well, none.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:Here's one for you - if you have a heavy support choice consisting of 3 Broadsides, one of which is a team leader, a target lock, advanced stabilization systems (or more drone controllers) and shield drones....

You've got one expensive-ass unit that costs twice as much as your hammerhead?

Yep I do. It does a lot MORE than a hammerhead, and in my humblest of opinions, is worth every point of it. I think broadsides make up the cornerstone of a Tau army, and if you mesh them with your army well, make you nigh unstoppable.

But then again, I'm just a random guy on the internet right? =p On the other hand, out of my last 50 or so games with my Tau, I've lost...well, none.

Hey, I agree with you about something. Tau can be competitive if people would stop trying to rely on crappy units (read: fire warriors).

A full unit of broadsides had better do everything better than a hammerhead considering their cost, not only points-wise in the game but the models themselves. $40 for a hammerhead, $105 for a full unit of broadsides at retail.

I just think the hammerhead looks better is all. I picked Tau because of their tanks and I want to use them, I don't care if it isn't as "competitive". Not to mention an army of broadsides is ludicrously expensive, but if you guys want to make a PayPal donation in an effort to help me win more games with my Tau then be my guest.

Also, how are fire warriors "crap" units? They're not as cheap as Kroot, no, but if you're like me and you aren't a huge fan of Kroot or the models then you don't really have much of a choice (the models are okay I guess, but I just don't like them as much as other people do).

Sidstyler wrote:A full unit of broadsides had better do everything better than a hammerhead considering their cost, not only points-wise in the game but the models themselves. $40 for a hammerhead, $105 for a full unit of broadsides at retail.

I just think the hammerhead looks better is all. I picked Tau because of their tanks and I want to use them, I don't care if it isn't as "competitive". Not to mention an army of broadsides is ludicrously expensive, but if you guys want to make a PayPal donation in an effort to help me win more games with my Tau then be my guest.

Also, how are fire warriors "crap" units? They're not as cheap as Kroot, no, but if you're like me and you aren't a huge fan of Kroot or the models then you don't really have much of a choice (the models are okay I guess, but I just don't like them as much as other people do).

I guess if you're playing purely for aesthetics and you like how they look, then firewarriors are fine.

As a troops unit in 5th ed, their weak morale rules, their poor survivability, and the fact that they are only truly deadly within 12"... but if they're within 12" they get slaughtered by only a few enemies, they're pretty crappy if you're trying to play competitively at all.

As a troops unit in 5th ed, their weak morale rules, their poor survivability, and the fact that they are only truly deadly within 12"... but if they're within 12" they get slaughtered by only a few enemies, they're pretty crappy if you're trying to play competitively at all.

...

Well, when you put it that way, yeah.

Sidstyler wrote:

As a troops unit in 5th ed, their weak morale rules, their poor survivability, and the fact that they are only truly deadly within 12"... but if they're within 12" they get slaughtered by only a few enemies, they're pretty crappy if you're trying to play competitively at all.

...

Well, when you put it that way, yeah.

What Firewarriors needed was a 15" Rapid Fire range, but now with run even that wont help them

I'll cast my vote for a point or two higher base cost, BS4, Overwatch/Stand & Shoot, and the ability to take a few slightly heavier weapons (burst cannon or a grenade launcher variant of the A.F.P.).

Alternatively, make the Pulse Rifle and Pulse Carbine both cause pinning, but impose a leadership penalty coming from the carbine to keep it worth taking.

Last idea... Tau rely on technology above physical speed/strength. Give the firewarriors flashbangs of sort, a defensive grenade option that gives them I9 when charged, that way they might kill 1-2 in a given close combat through blind (enemy) luck.

I'd agree with you Dashofpepper with the broadsides, but since Apocalypse opened up, and larger artillery have hit the board, one well placed shot would take out the broadsides and their drones....sad story...

In apocolypse, where you don't have to worry about FOC, take every broadside as a seperate unit and spread them across the board. That and with D weapons hitting the field, Hammerheads don't survive very long eather.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:I'd agree with you Dashofpepper with the broadsides, but since Apocalypse opened up, and larger artillery have hit the board, one well placed shot would take out the broadsides and their drones....sad story...

Really? Apocalypse has weapons that can wipe out a whole squad with Sv 2+ and 4+ invuln saves and multiple wounds per model all with a single hit? Why do people not take all those weapons? Turn one plaster the enemy's deployment zone with 5 or 6 of those and you win. That just seems over powered. I must be missing something.

VoxDei wrote:

Avrik_Shasla wrote:I'd agree with you Dashofpepper with the broadsides, but since Apocalypse opened up, and larger artillery have hit the board, one well placed shot would take out the broadsides and their drones....sad story...

Really? Apocalypse has weapons that can wipe out a whole squad with Sv 2+ and 4+ invuln saves and multiple wounds per model all with a single hit? Why do people not take all those weapons? Turn one plaster the enemy's deployment zone with 5 or 6 of those and you win. That just seems over powered. I must be missing something.

Titan FTW.

The whole point of Apoc is to use broken and silly things. People actually using Infantry in an Apoc Game are doing it wrong.

Ionheads were awesome in 4th, with Defensive weapons being S6. They were like AC/HB preds, able to drive around and unload a hella dakka wherever you needed it, or a potent 3 shot burst from 60" away after scooting away.

In 5th now, they are still cheap, not quite as mobile, and can stand off far enough away to benefit from a disruption pod. However, if you are playing fully mech, you need your railguns on your hammerheads, but if you are playing hybrid tau, your railguns will be on broadsides, leaving you space for an ionhead.