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This is not meant as a critisism but more of a bit of education. We all know that GW(and a lot of sci fi in general) "borrows" ideas from other sources and makes it their own. So I thought it might be fun and educational to point out the instances of GW "borrowing" ideas.

1: Necrons- "Borrowed" from terminator
2: Tyranids- "Borrowed" from Alien/Aliens
3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Aliens
4: Adeptus Arbites- "Borrowed" from Judge Dredd, at least the models anyway.
5: The concept of the "Warp" and traveling in the warp- "Borrowed" from Dune.
6: Tau-"Borrowed" from Japanime, like robotech, etc.
7: Kroot- "Borrowed" from Predator.
8: The Sentinel model- "Borrowed" from Star wars
9: The term Nurgle- "Borrowed" from the Elric Saga
10: Raven Guard- "Borrowed" from Edgar Allen Poes, poem The Raven. ( I realize that there was really no sublety to this "borrowing" but still they could have been a bit more original)

That's 10 off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many I have missed. Feel free to add.


GG

edited the title to bring clarity to the subject..GG

generalgrog wrote:
4: Adeptus Arbites- "Borrowed" from Judge Dredd, at least the models anyway.

The funny thing is that one of GW's first contracts was (IIRC) doing Judge Dredd minis. This would have been before or around the time of RT (and before the movie). Nothing to add, just a cool fact. Well I think it's a cool fact at least.

Well as I've been looking at warhammer fantasy I realize almost every single race is just a 'space' version of a fantasy army. Undead=necrons, so on and so forth. I almost think we should do a thread to see where the fantasy armies came from, as they came before 40k, right?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Well as I've been looking at warhammer fantasy I realize almost every single race is just a 'space' version of a fantasy army. Undead=necrons, so on and so forth. I almost think we should do a thread to see where the fantasy armies came from, as they came before 40k, right?

What complete nonsense. Where are the Space Dwarves, hmmmm?

Poppycock, .... next thing your going to say is that GW stole Elf, dwarf, human, goblin, orcs all from JRRTolkein or something.

Doctor Optimal wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Well as I've been looking at warhammer fantasy I realize almost every single race is just a 'space' version of a fantasy army. Undead=necrons, so on and so forth. I almost think we should do a thread to see where the fantasy armies came from, as they came before 40k, right?

What complete nonsense. Where are the Space Dwarves, hmmmm?

More correctly I think you ment to say where are the fantasy Tau, since he was saying every 40k army is just a space fantasy army. So you would have to point out a 40k army that did not have a fantasy precursor. Like the Tau.

Side note: The space dwarves are called Squats. And did exist at one point in 2nd edition 40k.

Strimen wrote:
Side note: The space dwarves are called Squats. And did exist at one point in 2nd edition 40k.

You found the joke! Have a cookie.

My first game ever in the 40k continuity was a Space Marine battle between my Orks and my best friend's Squats. My Great Gargant smashed up his war train, then he threw the GG at me. That sucker has to have been a pound or two of solid metal. Ouch.

Thank you very much Strimen, they were the ones I was thinking of. I assume everyone would figure it out by now, but I'll go and actually make the list:

Necron=Undead
Space Marine=Brettonian
Ork=Orc & goblin
Chaos=Warriors of Chaos
Lizardmen=Tyranids (same structure fluffwise and similar unit types, even if the don't look exactly simliar)
Squats=Dwarves
Dark Eldar=Dark Elves
Craftworld Eldar=High Elves
Inquisition/Sisters/Daemonhunters=Empire
Chaos Daemons=CHAOS DAEMONS... How bad is it that you recycle your own miniatures?

Guys who got left out:
Skaven
Tau
Wood Elves
Ogres
Vampire Counts, unless you want to lump these guys and undead as necrons

See what I mean? And of course I'm going to say that GW stole every fantasy race from Tolkien/Norse legend/Chaucer... GW isn't in the business of being original, they're in the business of making money off of people who can't sue for themselves!

I don't know about the OP but I never saw anything close to a space marine in the aliens series. They had colonial marines,
which were more akin to the imperial guard. The space marines would have plowed through those aliens.

Also, I don't think you can credit Michael Moorcock or the Elric Saga for coming up with Nurgle as Nurgle really is a piece
of Summarian mythology.

I'd disagree, and say the Skaven and Tyranids are more similar.

Both are horde armies, both have expendable troops, both are spawned, etc.


And Wood Elves and Tau are similar in-game terms (shooty)

augustus5 wrote:I don't know about the OP but I never saw anything close to a space marine in the aliens series. They had colonial marines,
which were more akin to the imperial guard. The space marines would have plowed through those aliens.

Were they marines..check
Were they in space...check
Were they "space" "marines"...check
Were they GW's version of space marines...no

augustus5 wrote:
Also, I don't think you can credit Michael Moorcock or the Elric Saga for coming up with Nurgle as Nurgle really is a piece
of Summarian mythology.

Ok so they "borrowed" from Moorcock who "borrowed" from Sumeria.

Thanx for playing,

GG

2: Tyranids- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft
3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft
5: The concept of navigators from Dune.
6: Tau-"Borrowed" from Roswell Greys.
9: The term Nurgle- "Borrowed" from the Elric Saga (I think it's older then that actualy)

Didn't Starcraft borrow Space Marines From GW? Who in-turn borrowed it from Starship Troopers?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Thank you very much Strimen, they were the ones I was thinking of. I assume everyone would figure it out by now, but I'll go and actually make the list:

Necron=Undead
Space Marine=Brettonian
Ork=Orc & goblin
Chaos=Warriors of Chaos
Lizardmen=Tyranids (same structure fluffwise and similar unit types, even if the don't look exactly simliar)
Squats=Dwarves
Dark Eldar=Dark Elves
Craftworld Eldar=High Elves
Inquisition/Sisters/Daemonhunters=Empire
Chaos Daemons=CHAOS DAEMONS... How bad is it that you recycle your own miniatures?

Guys who got left out:
Skaven
Tau
Wood Elves
Ogres
Vampire Counts, unless you want to lump these guys and undead as necrons

See what I mean? And of course I'm going to say that GW stole every fantasy race from Tolkien/Norse legend/Chaucer... GW isn't in the business of being original, they're in the business of making money off of people who can't sue for themselves!

I'd include IG as Empire (they get a tank, don't they?) but besides that I agree.

The point is that 40k and Fantasy had a common starting point and then they diverged. Tau came out pretty recently, so they aren't based on a Fantasy army. Same reason there's no 40k equivalent of Ogres.

I think the OP is being a little bit hard on GW. A lot of the races in 40k are twists on essentially an archetype. Necrons are undead, just in technological form. Eldar are just elves put in a new setting. Same with Orks (except that they're pretty unique as far as their "culture" in that they borrow little from Tolkien's orcs).

Every time you see a fantasy game that has Elves and Dwarves do you cry copyright infringement? No, because the Norse didn't copyright those terms from their mythology, and everyone has been using them since then. So my argument is not so much that GW is original, it's that you can't credit those ideas solely to one source in many cases.

And there will be NO skaven in space. Ever.

Cryonicleech wrote:I'd disagree, and say the Skaven and Tyranids are more similar.

Both are horde armies, both have expendable troops, both are spawned, etc.


And Wood Elves and Tau are similar in-game terms (shooty)

Wood elves and tau are similar in game terms, but that's where the similarities stop I think... I don't know if that one works. And while skaven & tyranids have the same gaming style, that's again where they stop looking similar. I just see the mage priests, saurus warriors, skinks, and jungle swarms looking a lot like tyranid warriors, rippers, and the norn queens of tyranid fame. They're both organic, they're both animals, they're both led by psychically charged creatures, both have a defined hierarchy, both have low toughness, low save troops that can be fast and definitely massed. I see skaven as rats in all respects... They flee at the first sign of trouble, backstab each other, don't have a lot of cohesion, etc. That doesn't remind me of the iron-willed hive mind of the tyranids very much.

Oh

you meant by looks, then your correct methinks.


As for Nurgle, I read in some book years ago with the term "Nurgal" in it.

It isn't much help, IMHO, but it's something.

Mad Rabbit wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Thank you very much Strimen, they were the ones I was thinking of. I assume everyone would figure it out by now, but I'll go and actually make the list:

Necron=Undead
Space Marine=Brettonian
Ork=Orc & goblin
Chaos=Warriors of Chaos
Lizardmen=Tyranids (same structure fluffwise and similar unit types, even if the don't look exactly simliar)
Squats=Dwarves
Dark Eldar=Dark Elves
Craftworld Eldar=High Elves
Inquisition/Sisters/Daemonhunters=Empire
Chaos Daemons=CHAOS DAEMONS... How bad is it that you recycle your own miniatures?

Guys who got left out:
Skaven
Tau
Wood Elves
Ogres
Vampire Counts, unless you want to lump these guys and undead as necrons

See what I mean? And of course I'm going to say that GW stole every fantasy race from Tolkien/Norse legend/Chaucer... GW isn't in the business of being original, they're in the business of making money off of people who can't sue for themselves!

I'd include IG as Empire (they get a tank, don't they?) but besides that I agree.

The point is that 40k and Fantasy had a common starting point and then they diverged. Tau came out pretty recently, so they aren't based on a Fantasy army. Same reason there's no 40k equivalent of Ogres.

I think the OP is being a little bit hard on GW. A lot of the races in 40k are twists on essentially an archetype. Necrons are undead, just in technological form. Eldar are just elves put in a new setting. Same with Orks (except that they're pretty unique as far as their "culture" in that they borrow little from Tolkien's orcs).

Every time you see a fantasy game that has Elves and Dwarves do you cry copyright infringement? No, because the Norse didn't copyright those terms from their mythology, and everyone has been using them since then. So my argument is not so much that GW is original, it's that you can't credit those ideas solely to one source in many cases.

And there will be NO skaven in space. Ever.

Good point on the IG being empire though... That's definitely right. But I'll disagree with you on skaven. I'm going to deny reality and believe hopelessly that there WILL be space rats, just because it would be something different and wouldn't be marines.

And you're probably right about being tough on GW because really, has ANYTHING new been invented in fantasy terms in the last 700 years? I still think recycling your own stuff and putting it in space is a pathetic attempt at it. At least use a different archetype or mix & match archetypes with different physical & cultural styles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cryonicleech wrote:Oh

you meant by looks, then your correct methinks.


As for Nurgle, I read in some book years ago with the term "Nurgal" in it.

It isn't much help, IMHO, but it's something.

Indeed, by looks, the broad playing style, and the overall 'feel' of the army (which would include culture, strategic weakness/strengths, etc.). I side with you on nurgle though, I think it's a complete ripoff from some obscure story somewhere along the line.

As an asside, if we can trace elves/eldar and dwarves/squats back to tolkien (in that he created the incarnation in which they are used now, rather than as spirits and evil creatures preying on the souls of men), then was would be the original source for the tau. They are obviously derived from anime, but who was the original author that developed the idea of robots with guns? Does anybody know?

generalgrog wrote:
Were they marines..check
Were they in space...check
Were they "space" "marines"...check
Were they GW's version of space marines...no

GG

Actually they were not in space when they fought the aliens. They fought them in the colony they went to investigate.

So by your logic they are "colony marines" Sort of similar to "colonial marines" me thinks.

Thanks for playing(and failing).

Heh,

Starcraft "borrowed" the space marine look from GW... and the dropship was based on the Aliens Pilot.

Space Marines- "Borrowed" from (Aliens & WTF!?! Starcraft)
Actually space marines as originally written (ie rogue trader) were much more like the Sardaukar in Dune.
Boltguns, armor, physical modifications and training, being taken from criminals, etc.
So Dune claims another faction.

I wondering if the new Necron material will take a similar inspirational root, having human traitors to the thinking machines, such like in the prequel novels.

Regwon wrote:As an asside, if we can trace elves/eldar and dwarves/squats back to tolkien (in that he created the incarnation in which they are used now, rather than as spirits and evil creatures preying on the souls of men), then was would be the original source for the tau. They are obviously derived from anime, but who was the original author that developed the idea of robots with guns? Does anybody know?

Orwell?

2: Tyranids- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft
3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft

Correction: Starcraft/Warcraft "Borrowed" from GW. Both were meant to be Fantasy/40K RTS games but were rejected by GW. So Blizzard slapped their own coat of paint on each and resold them under new names.

Same reason there's no 40k equivalent of Ogres.

"Ogryns! Dis' Way!" -DoW Bone'ead command acknowledgement.

I prefer the word 'homage'.

metallifan wrote:

2: Tyranids- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft
3: Space Marines- "Borrowed" from Starship Troopers, Starcraft

Correction: Starcraft/Warcraft "Borrowed" from GW. Both were meant to be Fantasy/40K RTS games but were rejected by GW. So Blizzard slapped their own coat of paint on each and resold them under new names.

Correction of Correction: This is true, indeed particularly for the Zerg, Blizzard said as much. They also returned to Starship Troopers for insperation. However, for the later updates of at least the nids codex, GW borrowed back from Starcraft, using some of the new units/abilities Blizzard had come up with. I would also define the differences between Fantasy/40k and Star/warcraft as slightly more then a coat of paint, but that's another issue.

generalgrog wrote:6: Tau-"Borrowed" from Japanime, like robotech, etc.

The Tau are bits and pieces from The Phantom Menace mixed with a smidgen of animeish stuff.

augustus5 wrote:
Also, I don't think you can credit Michael Moorcock or the Elric Saga for coming up with Nurgle as Nurgle really is a piece
of Summarian mythology.

While that may be the case, I don't think you can avoid the fact that GW 'borrowed' a LOT of what makes Chaos 'chaos' from Moorcock's Chaos.

Space Marines are taken directly from Starship Troopers the novel. There is also a pretty famous scifi novel entitled Armour that has super human soldiers in combat gear that was published in the seventies.



The old saying " All poets are liars all artists are thieves".

I facepalm every time I hear someone just getting into 40k talk about how cool it is, too bad it's a ripoff of Starcraft.
Starcraft is an EXCELLENT game and I cannot wait for the sequel, but it is in fact based partially on 40k.
Warcraft:Orcs vs Humans was going to be a WHFB PC game. GW pulled the plug (and the license) and Blizzard decided to change it here and there and make it their own.
Starcraft is the same deal, except with 40k.

And you notice how my point above is still valid. These are excellent games with good background, even though they have "borrowed" a lot from elsewhere.

Hollismason wrote:Space Marines are taken directly from Starship Troopers the novel. There is also a pretty famous scifi novel entitled Armour that has super human soldiers in combat gear that was published in the seventies.



The old saying " All poets are liars all artists are thieves".

ARMOR!

That book was excellent!

Even had a 'tyranid' sort of race in it too, I think...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_(novel)