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I'm considering starting either a British Armoured Car Squadron or an Italian Compagnia Carri when tne updated North Africa book is released. I had a quick glimpse at the Mid War Monsters book last weekend and I really like the looks of the British Boarhound I and the Italian P40. So those who have the book and have more FoW experience than myself, what's the concensus on these units? Are they worth their points? Thanks.

I'm interested in it, but I only really gave it a 5sec glance in the FLGS.

I love the Italian super tanks, a rubbish Panzer IV and a rubbish StuG.

I don't play mid war so I didn't take much interest in the points costs. The boarhound does look cool though.

I realy like the look of the TOG2, but i whish they had made a model for the Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster, it had as a arment a 800mm gun, two 150mm guns and loads of 15mm machine cannons, it weighed 1500 tonnes and had 250mm of armour on the front.

That'll be a 'Late war leviathan'. If such a book is ever produced I wouldn't expect anything bigger than the Maus or E100.

Shame...it would be a awsome model though.

Very cool book with great options for fun tourny play an I like the simple packaging of the models one purcase get you a full platoon most costing around the $25.00 range its a fun way to add another level to your FOW games and since I also do era 2 German ww2 model railroading the box sets are the perfect size for a flat car load...LOL

Saint Anuman wrote:Very cool book with great options for fun tourny play...

Battlefront has stated numerous times and even stated in the book that Mid War Monsters can not be used in tournament play. You won't see them in any of the qualifiers for the U. S. National Tournament, only an occasional local tournament.

Anyway, here's a little more information on the T18E2 Boarhound Heavy Armoured Car and the Carro Pesante P40 Heavy Tank from the Flames of War website.

I'm kinda happy about this book, not really a surprise as My big FOW collection is Afrika Korps. More then likley I'll buy these these two models.

Porsche’s version of the Tiger tank and 8.8cm FlaK18 Sfl tank-hunters.

I don't generally run tigers as they are hard to squeeze in but 88s on half-tracks i could see finding there way into a fair number of games.

I dont have any midwar stuff or experience yet so am only interested in the quality of the models (of which many are really nice looking). What has got me very interested is the idea of late way monsters. Maus anyone?

Ghaz wrote:

Saint Anuman wrote:Very cool book with great options for fun tourny play...

Battlefront has stated numerous times and even stated in the book that Mid War Monsters can not be used in tournament play. You won't see them in any of the qualifiers for the U. S. National Tournament, only an occasional local tournament.

As a retailer in weekly contact with battlefront I can say your half right
Midwar monsters has some cool events and tournaments planned thru battlefronts orginized play team but none of them will get you a spot on the US National tournament. which is still cool since out of 90 plus members of our FOW group only 10% are even interested in the "National event" knowing BF is supporting the fun side of orginised play has really made a lot of players very happy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heres the event format Side note: the table on page 96 mentioned below is two 4 x 6 tables combined to make a 8x6 mega battle table with the option to divide it from corner to corner instead of at the half way point providing better access to all..fun

Mid War Monsters
Army Lists
Each player may bring a 2000 point Mid War company. Each player must bring at least one platoon of
Mid War Monster tanks. The event organizer can theme the event or attempt to balance both sides so
to offer a fair and fun event for all.
Special Rules
Battlegroup Morale (Firestorm), Prepared Positions (Rulebook) and Total War Reserves
(Firestorm).
Preparing for Battle
(Please refer to table layout located on page 97 of the Firestorm Bagration Campaign book)
1. Decide on a start and ending time for the game. You will probably need half an hour plus an
extra half an hour for every 1000 points on a side. Make sure you have an extra hour available
after the end time so you can finish both players' turns.
2. Mark out the center line on the table.
3. Any player bringing a company that comprises of more than one Mid War Monster platoon
must nominate one Mid War Monster platoon as the target platoon.
4. Both sides now roll a die. The side with the higher score chooses one side of the center line to
attack from. The other side defends from the opposite side.
5. Starting with the attackers, both sides place an objective on the attackers' side of the center line
at least 12” from the table edge and the center line.
6. Starting with the defenders, both sides place an objective on the defenders' side of the center
line at least 12” from the table edges and the center line.
7. Starting with the attackers, both sides place an objective within 6” of the center line.
8. The attacking side now has up to five minutes to plan their strategy and an additional 20
minutes to deploy their entire force including Independent teams, but excluding
Reconnaissance Platoons.
They may deploy anywhere on their side of the center line as long as they are at least 12” from the
center line.
All teams in a Combat Company must deploy within 32” of their Company Command team.
The attackers may chose to keep any platoons they wish in Reserve. Any platoons not
completely deployed within 20 minutes must be held in Reserve. All Mid War Monster
platoons must be held in Reserve. Players that have more than one Mid War Monster platoon
only need to hold their target platoon in reserve.
9. The defending side now deploys under the same conditions and restrictions, but must also
deploy any Reconnaissance Platoons that are not held in Reserve at this time.
10.The attacking side now deploys any Reconnaissance Platoons that are not held in Reserve.
Reconnaissance Platoons may deploy up to the center line as long as they are at least 16” from
all enemy teams.
Beginning the Battle
1. Both sides start the game in Prepared Positions, so their troops are in Foxholes and Gone to
Ground.
2. The attacking side has the first turn.
End the Battle
The battle ends as soon as both sides have had the same number of turns and the agreed upon ending
time has passed. If the game has reached a critical moment and both sides want to see what happens
next, give each side another turn or two to find out.
Deciding who Won
At the start of a side's turn when you normally check victory conditions that side gains one Victory
Point for each objective that it holds. An objective yields a Victory Point to the side that has taken it
every turn that they hold it.
It is a good idea to keep a running total of Victory Points scored as you play the game. At the start
of each turn add up the Victory Points you score this turn, and add them to the running total.
A side starts the game holding all objectives in their deployment area. They hold any objective that
they have taken (even if all of their troops have since moved away) until the enemy takes it back or
contests it by having troops that could take it within 4”.
Each Mid War Monster tank destroyed gives up 1 Victory Point. The definition of destroyed is if
the tank fails an armor roll and either is destroyed in the assault phase or the opponent successfully
rolls their firepower.
Each Mid War Monster tank captured gives up 2 Victory Points. Any tanks that fail a motivation
test due to a double bail or platoon motivation test are captured. If tanks are bailed out during the
assault phase and the platoon falls back the bailed out tanks are considered captured if within 4” of the
enemy.
Mid War Monster platoons that are holding objectives in the opponents deployment zone are worth
2 Victory points instead of one.
The side that has the most Victory Points at the end of the game wins.
Historical Re-fights
Kursk, 1943: Germans vs. Soviets
El Alamein, 1942: German, Italians vs. British
Kasserine Pass, 1943: German, Italians vs. Americans, British, French

But once Mid-War Monsters is no longer "new" I wouldn't look for a lot of support. Not everyone plans on trying to get in the U.S. Nationals, but it's rules are their de facto tournament rules set.

Ghaz wrote:But once Mid-War Monsters is no longer "new" I wouldn't look for a lot of support..

Why would you think that? What source do you have that would lead you to believe that?
I know its sometime hard to get a feel for a persons statements here on a forum so my questions are not meant to imply anything and I'm wondering if the negative vibe for support is intentional or maybe something your seen or experienced or Im reading you wrong.

My concern is that folks reading this for the first time might get the wrong idea Ive been running events for this game for over 6 years now and support from Battlefront has always been their and Ive never had them not support a event or product cause it was not new. the only thing that dictates whats being played gamed or supported is the player fan base at the local level.

Because once again, that's direct from Battlefront. That's why.

Ghaz wrote:Because once again, that's direct from Battlefront. That's why.

I gotta say again your half wrong..you interpretation of the statements arnt perfect I'm getting the feeling your info is a bit off.
Im just tring to help here my position as a retailer in contact with battlefront gives me some insight.

you stated

Battlefront has stated numerous times and even stated in the book that Mid War Monsters can not be used in tournament play. You won't see them in any of the qualifiers for the U. S. National Tournament, only an occasional local tournament.

Your half right here Tournament play and the Qualifing tournaments for the US nationals and not the same.... been running these for 6 years and have pictures at my site to prove it... these are two very differant tournaments and both get support from battlefront mid war monster events will be supported and promoted now and in the future BUT thier will not be connected to the US nationals....

you then stated

But once Mid-War Monsters is no longer "new" I wouldn't look for a lot of support. Not everyone plans on trying to get in the U.S. Nationals

Again not exactly right here tournaments are not all connected to the US nationals and proof of that support was in the detailed event plan I posted that comes for the orginized play dept of battlefront . your statement of "I wouldn't look for a lot of support" is unsupported by any facts and Im telling you as a event planner with direct support from BF your very wrong on this one. again no disrespet Im just helping set the record straight.
My intent is to be helpfull and not be argumentive

From the Mid-War Mlonsters Designer Notes on the Flames of War website:

Can I use them in tournaments?

No, we knew from day one these were never going to make the usual tournament scene. Phil has included some suggestions for how to vary how these can used at clubs on a local level but the intention is that these stand alone from the core lists and cannot be mixed for competitive gaming. Of course a tournament organiser might want to run a Mid War Monsters themed event which embraces the unique nature of these vehicles.

So there it is in black and white for you. Mid-War Monsters is NOT going to be included in the majority of Flames of War tournaments other than an occasional local tournament. Case closed.

It's a strange world where MWM are squeezed out of competitive play (never a paragon of historical accuracy) while the Diana, HS-129B and a dozen other examples are given carte blanche.

Ghaz wrote:From the Mid-War Mlonsters Designer Notes on the Flames of War website:

Can I use them in tournaments?

No, we knew from day one these were never going to make the usual tournament scene. Phil has included some suggestions for how to vary how these can used at clubs on a local level but the intention is that these stand alone from the core lists and cannot be mixed for competitive gaming. Of course a tournament organiser might want to run a Mid War Monsters themed event which embraces the unique nature of these vehicles.

So there it is in black and white for you. Mid-War Monsters is NOT going to be included in the majority of Flames of War tournaments other than an occasional local tournament. Case closed.

Well at least we can agree to disagree, Ill be doing a few mid war monsters events with $100.00 of prize support for each one from BF your welcome to join us well be using the rules out lined in the previous post, should be a blast.

the HS-129 always befuddled me. Until FoW I had even forgotten that this aircraft even existed. It always felt like Battlefront pushed it out there just to force an "attack aricraft" into the german list.

Same with the US use of the Thunderbolt in FoW. Just feels odd to me. I know it was done and even mission dedicated.

And I see you still don't understand a thing that I said. Just because your store is going to allow them is inconsequential. The majority are going to go with what the book says.

Ghaz wrote:And I see you still don't understand a thing that I said. Just because your store is going to allow them is inconsequential. The majority are going to go with what the book says.

Really heres a list of stores doing the same sorry your taking this so hard but your off a little its OK I tried to tell you your assumptions are incorrect why is it a issue?
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=57&art_id=1310

Mid War Monsters Event
Mid War Monsters

For the month of August our US team have retailers in the US and Canada running a series of events promoting the use of Mid War Monsters.

Here is a list of those stores taking part so far. Head down to your local friendly hobby store and take part! For more information click here.
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=57&art_id=1310

Location:

Eagle and Empire
6468 Landsdowne Center
Alexandira, VA 22315

Date:
Every Wednesday in August
Time:
Starts at 7:00pm
Peirod:
Mid-War
Description:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario

Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Doug

Phone:
703-550-6124

Email:
eagleandempire@aol.com

Location:

Wizard's Keep
2902 North Ashley St.
Valdosta, GA 31602.

Date:
August 1st, 2009.

Time:
Starts at 10:00am
Peirod: Mid-War
Description:
1750 points, see Mid-War Monsters Scenario.

Cost:
$20.00

Contact:
Doug

Phone:
229-244-0774

Email:
wizardskeep@bellsouth.net


Location:

Icehouse Warriors
1089 Elkton Rd
Newark, DE 19711.

Date:
August 9th, 2009

Time:
Dice Roll @ 1:00pm
Peirod: Mid-War
Event:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Jesse

Phone:
302-388-6475

Email:
http://www.meetup.com/Icehouse-Warriors/
Location:

Time Warp Comics and Games
555A Pampton Ave
Cedar Grove, NJ 07009.

Date:
August 11th, 2009
Time:
Starts at 7:00pm
Peirod: Mid-War
Event:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Jim
Phone:
973-857-9788

Email:
management@timewarpcomics.com


Location:

Strategies Games
3878 Main St., Unit 3
Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada V5V 3N9.
Date:
August 15th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 12:00 noon

Peirod: Mid-War

Event:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Darren

Phone:
604-872-6911

Email:
info@strategiesgames.ca
Location:

Armoury Toys & Hobbies
1210 5th Ave
Prince George, British Columbia
Canada, V2l 3L2

Date:
August 15th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 12:00 noon
Peirod: Mid-War
Event:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Chris

Phone:
250-562-6206

Email:
sales@armouryhobbies.com


Location:
Le Portail du Jeu
20 Boulevard Georges-Gagne, Suite 101
Delson, Quebec, J5B 2E2

Date: August 15th, 2009

Time: Starts at 9:00am

Peirod: Mid-War

Description: Bring a Mid-War company (including
some Mid-War Monsters!) for a big
fight. Contact us to reserve your spot.



Cost: $0.00

Contact: Jean-Claude

Phone: 450-632-3456

Email: info@portaildujeu.com

Location: Whiz Store
276 Turnpike Rd
Westborough, MA 01581

Date:
August 16th, 2009

Time:
11:00am setup, 12:00pm-5:00pm gaming
Peirod:
Mid-War

Description:
Come and play in our Mid-War Monsters
Mega-battle! Bring your Mid-War Monsters
and be ready from some Mid-War action!

Cost:
$0.00
Contact:
Chris

Phone: N/A

Email: chris@whiznet.com


Location:

Legions Games
1130 Perry Highway
Pittsburgh, PA 15237

Date:
August 16th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 11:00am
Peirod: Mid-War

Description:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Bob

Phone:
604-872-6911

Email:
bob@legionsgames.com

Location:

Mission Fun & Games
86 McKenney Ave
St. Albert, Alberta
Canada T8N 2T7

Date:
August 16th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 1:00pm
Peirod: Mid-War
Description:
Armies do not have to be painted.
Bring your dice and take no prisoners.
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
John
Phone:
780-459-1444
Email:
john@boardgames.ca


Location:
Albright's
1777 Alexandira Dr
Lexington, KY 40504

Date: August 22nd, 2009

Time: Starts at 11:00am

Peirod: Mid-War

Description: Each player may bring a 2000 point
Mid-War company with at least one
platoon of Mid-War Monster tanks.

Cost: $0.00

Contact: James

Phone: 859-277-3937

Email: albrite@windstream.net

Location: Your Hobby Place
57 Meadow Lane
Martinsburg, VA 25404

Date:
August 23rd, 2009

Time:
Starts at 1:00pm
Peirod:
Mid-War

Description:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00
Contact:
David

Phone: 304-267-3110

Email: dave@yourhobbyplace.com


Location:

Hobby Shark
49 Main St. South
Georgetown, Ontario
Canada, L7G 3G2
Date:
August 23rd, 2009

Time:
Starts at 12:00 noon

Peirod: Mid-War

Event:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Gordon

Phone:
905-873-9991

Email:
N/A

Location:

Area 51 Gaming
130 N Main St. Suite 130
Grapevine, TX 76051

Date:
August 23rd, 2009

Time:
Starts at 12:00 noon
Peirod: Mid-War
Event:
1750 points. See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00

Contact:
Erin

Phone:
817-416-2595

Email:
area51store@hotmail.com


Location:
High Octane Games
3rd Ave #250
Kamloops, British Columbia
Canada V2C 3M3

Date: August 23rd, 2009

Time: Starts at 10:30am PST

Peirod: Mid-War

Description: See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost: $0.00

Contact: Danny

Phone: 250-377-8444

Email: highoctanegames@hotmail.com

Location: Hobby Kingdom
1160 Blair Rd. Unit A
Burlington, Ontario
Canada, L7M 1K9

Date:
August 27th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 5:00pm
Peirod:
Mid-War

Description:
See Mid-War Monsters Scenario
Cost:
$0.00
Contact:
Jason

Phone: N/A

Email:
jtbick@hotmail.com


Location: L-Atelier Du Jeu
5555 Chemin de Chambly
St. Hubert, Quebec, Canada
Date:
August 29th-30th, 2009

Time:
Starts at 12:00 noon
Peirod:
Mid-War

Description:
Opening Gaming with Mid-War Monsters rules
Cost:
$0.00
Contact:
Mario

Phone: 450-676-0404

Email:
info@atelierdujeu.com

And all you have done is further reinforce my point that you haven't bothered to read a single point that I've made nor have you bothered to read Battlefront's position on the matter. The tournaments that they're having for the Mid-War Monsters release DO NOT MATTER. Once they are over, per Battlefront's very own statements you will NOT see the Mid-War Monsters used in their tournaments. Why do you think they said as much if they didn't mean it and you'd see them allowed in every tournament?

As an impartial reader I'll chime in as this is just going in circles now. It seems clear to me that battlefront are not supporting MWM in major tournaments and possibly long term, but are happy providing prizes and support for smaller (authorised) tournaments in which MWM is fully legal and allowed.

Since this is just going around in circles and Battlefront has made it's position quite clear that Mid-War Monsters is not for tournament play other than for it's own release event I believe this thread needs to be closed since it's wandered off topic.