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I was thinking of adding a squad of Khorne Berserker's to my just started Word Bearer army. But as I was reading about the Word Bearer's on Lexicanum, it said that they worship chaos undivided. Would this mean that containing cult troop's would not stick to the fluff, seeing as they worship a single god?

Thanks for enlightening me!

Sticking to the WB fluff means lots of Undivided Marks, a Dark Apostle to lead them wielding the Cursed Crozius, and lots of different types of Daemons from every God. Given the diversity of unit types that you can have in a Word Bearer army it tends to be quite a difficult one to put together correctly.

Thankfully, GW realised just how difficult and time-consuming it was to make Word Bearer armies, so removed them from the game to save us the bother.

So enjoy your Generic Daemons and Icons of Morning Glory instead. They make things far easier.

Thanks for enlightening me, dang generic Daemons and marks kind of suck, it would have been much more fun putting together a diverse army. Oh well, so Word bearers are not a great thing to play?

You Can play them, sure, but the Codex is very genericized. The closest thing to a Dark Apostle would have to be either a Chaos Sorceror or Lord. Undivided troops with icon of reroll leadership would stand as normal Wordies, which aren't THAT bad, it's just that the cult troops usually do one or more things better for an extra ~3/4 the cost per man. Word Bearers do love the "Rainbow Coalition Skittles Approach" to demons, but you can't do that, so your theme may be hurt if you care about that.

Unless you are really into the idea of playing them, it seems a bit boring to me.

For the uninitiated, the sarcasm in my first post was lathered on in huge big dollops. I hate the fact that Daemons are generic and GW didn't help anyone or make anything any 'easier' by removing Word Bearers (and different Daemon types) from CSM armies.

Playing Word Bearers is great... if you use the previous Codex. Playing Word Bearers now just means a different paint job, as there's no difference between them, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Black Legion or Night Lords. Sure, you can intentionally handicap yourself and take loads of Generic Daemons and then pretend your Lash Daemon Prince is a Dark Apostle... but yeah, you're just playing the same Chaos Marine list that everyone else is playing.

So go ahead, play Word Bearers, paint them up as Word Bearers and have fun. You won't actually be playing Word Bearers - you'll be playing the not-really-all-that-Chaotic-generic-Renegade-Marines army - but there's not much you can do about it.

It could be worse. You could be a Cult Army player who lost all their World Eater Possessed, Death Guard Bikers, Rubric Terminators or Noise Marine Havocs.

Ick. Seriously, Im really liking 5th edition for the most part, but they SCREWED chaos badly this time around. I figured as much tho. They seem to do the ol "this time they are great, next time they suck" type of building
Bastards

It's par for the course really. It'll come good next time around.

2nd Ed Codex - Good.
First 3rd Ed Codex - Bad.
Second 3rd Ed Codex - Good.
4th Ed Codex - Bad.

So the 5th Ed one in a few years is sure to be a killer!

Ok, thanks a ton. Do you think in friendly games people would let me use second 3rd edition rules for my Daemons, or would that be bending the rules too much?

I'd say ask them if you can use the Daemons in the Chaos Daemons Codex. They're neither better nor worse in most cases (Furies are a big exception - they went from S5 I5 to completely worthless... *stares at his two units of 15 Furies* ... damned GW), just use the Chaos Codex's stats wherever there's a double up (ie. don't take a CSM Daemon Prince as HQ and then a Chaos Daemons Daemon Prince as an Heavy Support choice).

Start by using the basic ones - Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plague Bearers and Horrors/Flamers - see how that goes, and if your group is open to that, add in a few more (Seekers, Hounds, Fiends) until you reach a healthy balance.

Then, once you've lulled them into a false sense of security, ask them if you can give up 1 Elite, 1 Heavy Support and 1 Fast Attack slot in order to bring 9 Troops choices, which is what you got with the old Word Bearer rules. After that you can ease them into ditching the Chaos Codex compeltely and switching to the 3rd Ed one.

I started building my Word Bearers with the last codex. I had one of each type of Daemon, and 4-5 CSM Squads, modified as best I could to make them like their corresponding cult troops. When this codex came out, I still use the different varieties of Daemon, they still have their distinct look obviously, and this time I actually built the CSM units as cult troops. I have a Greater Daemon that is built to look like he used to be a Chaplain, so that helps a bit. However, I found out that this army sux at lower point levels, so if I'm playing it competitively I use 3-4 7 man CSM units in Rhinos, Blank Champions, IoG, and a Meltagun. 3-4 7 man Daemon units, a 7 man Chosen unit, 2 3 man Termie units, a Lash Prince, a Greater Daemon, and 3 Oblits. It performs pretty well, and you can call it boring, but I have a good time with it.

And yes, this codex is extremely bland compared to the last one, but if you put your mind to it, you can still make it work. I also play World Eaters (MUCH better than they used to be) and Iron Warriors. In that case I go with no Daemons, and I take a unit of Termies with a Land Raider Transport, that way I can still have 4 Heavy Support.

Just takes a little creativity...

If they are amenable to the using demons now bifurcated into the Chaos Demon codex, you need to determine how they come into play. I'd proffer via icon (same costs as Angry Vanilla Marinez Hurr!) but summon on like demons hitting an icon on the demon codex-they land on target, can run, but cannot charge.

This will avoid charges of "demonbomb!!!! ahhhh!!!"

Easy way to balance Daemonbomb is to allow Daemons to move/run/fleet/assault/whatever on the turn they are summoned, but only allow each icon to summon one unit per game turn. Can't just use one Icon to bring a whole army in then.

H.B.M.C is overreacting

Yea, you can still build a 'fluffy' Word Bearers force. Of course, it has no special rules, you just need to limit what you take.

Word Bearers love summoning, and worship Chaos as an undivided pantheon. So...

- Characters with Undivided Mark - Squads with Undivided Icon.

- Lots and lots of summoned lesser daemons, maybe a greater daemon, but you may want to convert some 'generic' daemons rather than use Daemonettes, Bloodletters, etc. Or even have 'lesser daemon' squads made up of a mix of different daemons. That would be kinda fluffy.

- Convert your lord or sorcerer into a 'Dark Apostle'. Maybe use a converted SM Chaplain? His Crozius could be a Chaos Lord's daemon weapon.

- Use Possessed. Those Word Bearers sure do love summoning, even if it involves summoning daemons into themselves!

- Don't take cult troops (Berserkers, Thousand Sons etc), but all other options should be acceptable. MAYBE don't take obliterators, but you could get away with them if you wanted.

Hey presto! Fluffy Word Bearers. Not the most competitive build, I'm sure, but you could certainly make a half decent list if you practise...!

i wouldnt have a problem with someone using daemons from the daemons codex given they didnt take hordes of them, and maybe made them 1 or 2 pts more expensive...
and of course they let me know before...

but either way, you can have a very fluffy LOOKING word bearers army, albeit not the most fluffy rules-wise...

i for one love the word bearers fluff and think it looks pretty sweet when executed well...

just make sure you get lots of summoning and fanatical chaos clergy looking guys!

I agree with the more positive remarks.

You can demon bomb and be in close combat by round 2 with 9 bikes carrying an icon, all turbo boost turn one and the demons drop 6 in. in front of that. so assuming you start 2 ft away in a normal deployment you can cover that entire distance in turn 1. stack up on like 40 demons at about 12-16 pts each and you have a killer assault with plenty of room to spare in a 1500 or 1750 pt list! CSM HQ on bike has been getting interesting as well lately...

Competitive Word Bearers:

Erebus - (Counts as Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission, Wings)
Kor Phaeron - (Counts as Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission, Wings)

Chaos Space Marines with Righteous Zeal (Counts as Plague Marines)

The Annointedx9 (Counts as Obliterators)


olololol

H.B.M.C. wrote:
For the uninitiated, the sarcasm in my first post was lathered on in huge big dollops.

that should be your new sig!

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hate the fact that Daemons are generic and GW didn't help anyone or make anything any 'easier' by removing Word Bearers (and different Daemon types) from CSM armies.

Playing Word Bearers is great... if you use the previous Codex. Playing Word Bearers now just means a different paint job, as there's no difference between them, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Black Legion or Night Lords. Sure, you can intentionally handicap yourself and take loads of Generic Daemons and then pretend your Lash Daemon Prince is a Dark Apostle... but yeah, you're just playing the same Chaos Marine list that everyone else is playing.

So go ahead, play Word Bearers, paint them up as Word Bearers and have fun. You won't actually be playing Word Bearers - you'll be playing the not-really-all-that-Chaotic-generic-Renegade-Marines army - but there's not much you can do about it.

It could be worse. You could be a Cult Army player who lost all their World Eater Possessed, Death Guard Bikers, Rubric Terminators or Noise Marine Havocs.

agreed. your options for effective slot choices is minimal but you can still technically play a word bearers themed army... they'll just be identical to a black legion undivided army... and an ultramarine company that's gone rogue... etc... sigh... me thinks CSM needs some msg!

sourclams wrote:Competitive Word Bearers:

Erebus - (Counts as Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission, Wings)
Kor Phaeron - (Counts as Daemon Prince with Lash of Submission, Wings)

Chaos Space Marines with Righteous Zeal (Counts as Plague Marines)

The Annointedx9 (Counts as Obliterators)


olololol

genius.

um.

this is a joke, right?

The codex is the joke. That's just the punch line.

sourclams wrote:The codex is the joke. That's just the punch line.

Whoa, best line ever.

In all seriousness, though, you could make a decent Word Bearers army with the Codex Space Marines book and "counts as". Do the same for any of the other legions really. And use Blood Angels or Space Wolves for World Eaters.

whitedragon wrote:And use Blood Angels or Space Wolves for World Eaters.

OMFG I am DOING it! Wow, that's a total turnaround that I didn't even consider. I painted my Word Bearers a really dusky red with bronze and silver trim so I can easily use them as World Eaters as well. But regardless, the Space Wolves codex is going to lend itself to a very smash-you-up type of play and if GW follows trend it'll be super competitive.

This is a great idea, love it.

sourclams wrote:

whitedragon wrote:And use Blood Angels or Space Wolves for World Eaters.

OMFG I am DOING it! Wow, that's a total turnaround that I didn't even consider. I painted my Word Bearers a really dusky red with bronze and silver trim so I can easily use them as World Eaters as well. But regardless, the Space Wolves codex is going to lend itself to a very smash-you-up type of play and if GW follows trend it'll be super competitive.

This is a great idea, love it.

Yea I dunno, I always toyed with the idea of doing preheresy Luna Wolves using the Space Wolves codex, but maybe Space World Eater Wolves is the way to go. Especially if Ragnar "Kharn" Blackmane gives the whole army Blood "Fleet" Rage! Unfortunately, I'm a purist and even this level of counts as feels wrong to me.

I'll stick with getting my can kicked in using the Chaos dex with only 'zerkers as troops. :(

The problem with using Space Marines for a Word Bearers army is you lack the biggest part of the army, the DAEMONS. Without daemons, Word bearers have no fluff, they're even more generic. Also, someone up in the thread said Word Bearers are like Alpha Legion... Alpha Legion, the people who don't use daemons, are the same as the most daemon-enriched army? Funny.

Word Bearers use Daemons and Daemon Engines, plain and simple. 3 Defiler for heavy support, PLAYED RIGHT, is amazing. Either that or put Daemonic possession on whatever vehicle you use and model accordingly. Dreadnoughts are also fluffy but aren't suggested for obvious reasons. Now, if you play them to fluff standards, I'd say a list would look something like...

2-3 Troops choices mounted in rhinos, IoCG, 2x Meltagun/Flamer/Plasmagun in each, and a champion with no gear

2 Greater Daemons

1-2 Squads of Lesser Daemons

An HQ, preferrably a sorcerer I'd say, in termi armor

A squad of termi's counting as his elite bodyguard, also will be your termicide squad if you'd rather deep strike them.

And of course, a defiler or three.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:The problem with using Space Marines for a Word Bearers army is you lack the biggest part of the army, the DAEMONS.

And? You have the same problem if you use the 'Chaos' Codex.

The theme of Chaos is failing. They've been doing it for 10k years!

Id chuck the bezerkers in anyway.. does anyone care that much?

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:The problem with using Space Marines for a Word Bearers army is you lack the biggest part of the army, the DAEMONS.

I think that depends, the SW codex is probably going to have wolves and almost certainly will have Wulfen. If they do it anything like the SM/IG codices with unlocking special abilities, then a Rune Priest HQ will probably allow a big squad or two of Wulfen. I think there's a pretty strong parallel there to a Dark Apostle, especially considering how completely KillSauce a decked out Rune Priest typically is. I highly doubt that Wulfen will be weak, so they could represent a more elite Daemon and wolf packs, if they exist, or even basic Blood Claws, could be a second, less elite type.

And yes, basing my favorite army around codices that don't even exist yet *does* make me taste throw-up in my mouth.

Uhm...newsflash...

Use scouts as demons. Done.

They have the same statline, less the Invul save. Just Outflank them on for summoning.

Good idea!

What sticks to the fluff?

Most things. Blood, organic matter.

"Say, brother Aleph. Does the crap always stick to your armour?"

"Why yes, brother null."

So brother null uses Aleph to wipe the smeared stuff off.

I don't have word bearers personally (Thousand sons Ftw), but one of my freinds does, and he uses a lot of cult troops modeled differently (Bezerkers=fanatics, Oblits=mega screwed up possesed). It might be something you want to think about =).