Divinity of the Emperor

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**Manchu**

I've been curious as to what people generally think about this. Be warned, though, I will take down the names of all heretics!

Sorry in advance for my lack of psychic powers in adding your particular witty one-liner as an option.

**Emperors Faithful**

This may be funny coming from a Witch Hunter but I agree with the Space Marines view. A man. A great man. A wise man. A man like no other. But still a man. It is also obvious that mankind needed a light in those dark times. And the Emprah was that light. Taking upon the mantle of a god for the common people, in death(ishness). Something to give them hope.

P.S. Yesssssssss, 1st!

**Manchu**

Someone just voted option two, eh? I see this thread has already been tainted by Chaos.

**Emperors Faithful**

...beware, they could strike at any moment...

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I had to vote for option 2, something about the way the Emperor acted rubs me the wrong way.

**Manchu**

Well, you are a Night Lord first after all. And, regarding the Emperor's behavior, all has yet to be revealed! (And it never will be, I'll wager.)

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Hey we Night Lords didn't fall to Chaos we just got fed up and left.

And I'm a Spess Wolf as well...

GW will never explain the Emperor's motives but the way he handled things lead to his down fall.

**ChaoticOrkz**

I voted for option 2 :]

**Manchu**

The mysterious retreat to Terra is what I think most people have a problem with. It is the beginning of the Heresy, IMO. I guess that whatever he was doing in those subterraenan labs what pretty important, however. Probably a key component for the survival of humanity. But we seem to differ in that I give the Empra the benefit of the doubt whereas you don't. Fair enough.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Its not just his retreat to Terra, its how he handled it and the things to come after words. He just up and left for one, telling the Primarchs that he was going away to do somethings and that they would be left to lead the Crusade with Horus leading them.

Then he put the Council of Terra in charge of everything, letting the Bureaucrats run the war rather than the military.

Also the Treatment of Lorgar and the handling of the Council of Niketo could have been handled better.

**Emperors Faithful**

TO ARMS! TO ARMS BROTHERS! THEY ARE ALL AOROUND US! BUT WE SHALL OVERCOME!!!

**ChaoticOrkz**

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh! down with the imperium!

**Emperors Faithful**

...FAIL!

I banish you, gretchin, back to the warp storm called "Imperium killz orkz" from whence you came!

**1hadhq**

The divinity of the "holy God Emperor" was created by Lorgar.

This lunatic needed someone to worship, so he "promoted" him to "God" status.
Remember, Lorgar wrote that book. ( lectitio divinatus ( SP? ) ).
And founded the chaplains, as part of the space marines.

Have to vote for the obvious option:

Emperor = commands them all. He has the vision to lead mankind from strife to glory.

So......anyone calling my Emporer a dead corpse will be faster reduced to ashes than he can cry to his so-called gods.

**ChaoticOrkz**

me stomp u!!!!!

**Manchu**

Lorgar may have written Lectio Divinitatus but he also repudiated it and is not responsible for the rise of the Imperial Cult much less the Ecclesiarchy.

**Huffy**

Death to the false Emperor!
Chaos cannot be denied(neither can da orkz!!)

**1hadhq**

Manchu wrote:Lorgar may have written Lectio Divinitatus but he also repudiated it and is not responsible for the rise of the Imperial Cult much less the Ecclesiarchy.

He is responsible in some way.

Lorgar => wrote lec. divi., WordBearers used it to bring worlds into a secure compliance => iterators and other humans read it, believe it => founding of the ecclesiarchy to collect the masses into one organization.

See, it all started with lorgar.

PS: are here any fungi?

PS 2: there is only ONE emperor. can't be a false one then....

**Manchu**

That last arrow of yours contains assumptions large enough to be erroneous on their face. It is unknown how Lectio Divinitatus spread throughout Warmaster Horus's fleet but the first saint of the Imperial Cult, Euphrati Keeler, was among the remembrancers following him rather than Lorgar. By that point, Lorgar had repudiated the worship of the Emperor and his own work, the Lectio. He would thus not have attempted to spread the cult even as Horus, to whom he had sent Erebus, attempted to stamp it out. Given these facts, it is likely that the Imperial Cult would have emerged whether or not Lorgar wrote the Lectio. The subsequent transformation of the cult into the Ecclesiarchy is even more mysterious at this point and certainly far removed from the influence of Lorgar.

**Velour_Fog**

He must be a god. He can't have lived for most of the ages of the earth without being touched by the divine.

He may not be a benevolent god in the traditional sense, but rather in a more general way in trying to unite humanity and defeat it's enemies.

So there.

**1hadhq**

Yes,It was out of lorgar's control.

And still he got a worthy opponent ( the imperial cult), something this warp-worshipper hasn't thougth of.

Humans may flock to religion in hard times. Lorgar got what he deserved.

Billions of imperial cultists.

Since faith in the emperor helps against warp-creatures ( keeler ), why should the imperium not use this?
Could be just misunderstood. Maybe the power to fight back chaos is inherent in humans and "faith" focuses the wielder enough
to withstand the warp and use such unknown abilities?
It is said that humanity evolves, why not to something capable to command the warp?

The "divinity" of the Emperor is a fine tool. Not what he wished, but useful for mankinds survival .

**Manchu**

1hadhq wrote:It is said that humanity evolves, why not to something capable to command the warp?

Like a Space Marine Librarian? The Sisters of Silence believed Keeler to be a psyker and she was questioned by them at their citadel on Luna. See Flight of the Eisenstein for more.

**1hadhq**

A librarian is a good example. A trained user, who may be trusted. ( if not, burn the witch

).

Now, mankind seem to have rising numbers of psykers each year.
If those could be trained with more effort, and led by the mightiest psyker ( the emperor ), wouldn't that change the balance of power?

But there is also great risk, seems the emperor decided against it back in the days.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

And look how well that turned out for him, he failed to listen to one son, who was slightly misguided, and was put in his near death state by another.

**Manchu**

They did train psykers even in those days. There were still SM Librarians after the Council of Nikaea. And of course the Adeptus Astra Telepathica was around. There doesn't seem to be a psyker faction unto itself, though. This is what the Emperor presumably thought would be too dangerous.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Stynier: The Thousand Sons were a coven of witches and rightly denounced by the Emperor along with their disobedient Primarch. Magnus was already giving into Chaos long before Russ had him cornered. Do you know who went along with the Space Wolves to Prospero? The Emperor's hands: Legio Custodes and the Sisters of Silence. I'm not so sure that the Emperor did not foresee the fall of the Primarchs.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

They could have been properly shown what it was rather than what the emperor did. It was liking telling someone they can't do something with out good reasoning, what's it gonna do? Its gonna make them wanna do it all the more.

The Emperor being able to foresee the fall of the Primarchs doesn't help his case in my book. It shows incompetence. He could easily have prevented such things from happening or made things so that they happened in a less serious manner than how they happened. Instead he chose to fall back to Terra to continue his self indulging quest to become a god even after rebutting his son for worshiping him as one.

**1hadhq**

Magnus was too overconfident about his abitlity to control the warp.
Still, the emperor has seen Magnus as 2nd best suited to use the "throne" after himself, superior to malcador.

Maybe the emperor wasnt the perfect daddy, but his sons were also lacking in a lot of things.

Russ easily fell to horus trick, not dragging Magnus back to his emperor but killing him.
Magnus didn't accept the emperors order. Should have rushed to the loyal legions side on isstvan, not whine to his daddy.

But we will see what BL makes of this.

**Emperors Faithful**

The Emperors only "flaw", was that he loved his sons too much. To him they were not generals whos loyalty he demanded, and could keep watch of. They were his children, his brethren whom he trusted. Apparently, he trusted some of them too much.

**Manchu**

1hadhq wrote:Maybe the emperor wasnt the perfect daddy, but his sons were also lacking in a lot of things.

QFT. Why should the Primarchs, who were supposedly like demigods, act like such babies? "Oh, daddy, why did you leave me in charge of the war, bawwww!" "Waa waa waa, I wanna play with magic, waaa!"

Looks like we've got an even number of true believer and heretics here on the poll so far. Funny how people don't seem to like the Star Child option.

**Octavius Widowmaker**

The Emperor was a man yes,but he was also the most powerful psyker humanity had or has ever produced.As such he knew everything that was to come in the future.But the one thing he would not do was take away the freewill of his sons regardless of their future actions.Without a Galaxy at War mankind would be destroyed so he let his Sons make the choice to fall to Chaos.