Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just what the Title says.

Should GW start combining some codices into Larger two or three in one Codices?

If so:

Which armies?

How would you do such?

And, Why would you do such?


This is something I've been thinking about for a while and have noticed others commenting on such possibilities, so I figured it might make a good discussion.

I'll wait for a few others before I post some of my thoughts.

As always, play nice.

,Later

Combined Codices? Depends how far you want to break it down. You also have to avoid a discussion on who 'deserves' a Codex.

If you're going to do it by 'race', then you could do some very cool things like the Big Book'o'Eldar that has a standard list, Craftworld variant lists, Harlequins, Exodites and Dark Eldar all in the same book. Ditto for Inquisitorial armies, with the three main Ordos represented as well as their Chambers Militant (SoB, GK and DW).

Angels of Death Codex, giving us a combined Dark Angel/Blood Angel Codex, with separate sub-lists for Deathwing, Ravenwing and Army of Death formations (and maybe even little extra rules for the ones that vary from those like Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkers, who are at the opposite ends of the Blood Angel spectrum).

A Codex Chapters, which really would be similar to what we have now, but something more than taking Mandatory Non-Special Special Characters.

A combined 'Imperium' Codex that leaves out the Inquisitorial and Marine side of things and just looks at the various other major fighting forces in the Imperium - so basic Guard, MechGuard, Drop Troop Guard, Armoured Companies, AdMech/Tech Guard - even the armies that Rogue Traders can have.

Chaos could be done with three books - A generic/Black Legion book that included sub-list rules for Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion & Word Bearers (and proper fething Daemons). A Lost & The Damned/Slaves to Darkness style book with Daemonic Legions, Daemon World Armies and Lost & The Damned. And then a Cult Legion book with World Eaters, Death Guard, 1KSons and Emp's Children.

Orks, Tau, Necrons and Tyranids would all say similar, except Orks might get some actual Klan rules.

Have I forgotten anyone?

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Have I forgotten anyone?

Nope.

However I would split eldar into 2 codex's: Eldar (including craftworld lists) and then Dark Eldar (to include Exodites)

Orks would have Klan rules.

I wish GW would do this but I doubt it will happen.

Pretty sure H.B.M.C. nailed it right on the head with his post. Summed up everything I was going to say before I even got the chance to say it.

Well done.

I think that Chaos could be covered by a single mega-codex, but the eldar and dark eldar should be kept separate.

I never understood why GW would not release more special editions like the Chaos books etc..

I think many thinner 'dexes would work better. If GW could actually update them in a sencible matter (i.e. oldest first, playtest, give a rodent's donkey about gamers, shoot Robin Cruddace, etc.)

Id actually like Codexes that had all fluff removed completely and were the size of the Rule book from AOBR. I love that rulebook so handy.

Hey H.B.M.C., thanks for posting. You are one of the primary individuals I hoped to see post on this subject. This is because of your extensive knowledge of the Imperiums forces.

To answer the postulation in your first line:

It was one of my thoughts that if they combined codices into larger combined books that the release schedule might speed up enough to end the who deserves a codex debate.

As to the rest of your post.....Curse you H.B.M.C., I want to let a few more posts in before I respond in depth, but your post cuts so quickly to so many points I feel compelled to comment.


First, I agree with your first point to some extent but hope for a division of the Eldar between Craftworld Eldar and the Exodites and Outcasts.

Also, agree about the Inquisition but would like to see BT added to the Ordos Xenos. I expect a lot of argument on this idea, though.

The Angels of Death Idea is really good. Was thinking the Tainted/Non Codex Chapters (SW, BA, DA) for the SM chapters that show sign of possible mutation or taint of chaos but not enough for the inquisition to openly act.

Agree with the Codex Chapters.

I want a similar division on the IG anf the LatD, doing this might get GW to do a something aside from Catachan and Cadian Guard models. Would love to see a Dwarven Ad-mech army.

On Chaos I'll wait to comment.


The Xenos races need extensive expansion after some talented writers actually develop detail background in the Black Library. It is hard work creating a fictional race with its own unique history, societal structure, and personality. The extra space in the release schedule might allow for such development.

I come from the stance that the majority of people play Imperium because there is a back story and culture that they can identify with. A little added depth to the "Alien Scum" and therefor the 40K universe might improve the games popularity.


I think you got em all.


Thanks,

Later

I come from the stance that the majority of people play Imperium because there is a back story and culture that they can identify with.

For some reason that disturbs me, I don't quite like the idea that there are people out there identifying with the facist/technophobic/xenophobic/genocidal Imperium.

Maybe we should identify more with Orks - a race who's reason for being is to cause destruction.

(/wishy-washy political statement)

Seriously, we can't really identify with anyone beyond the basic Guardsmen.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe we should identify more with Orks - a race who's reason for being is to cause destruction.

Indeed.

I identify with chaos worshipers. I just want to do right by my deity, grow tentacles, and live forever. Is that so wrong?

Noisy_Marine wrote:I identify with chaos worshipers. I just want to do right by my deity, grow tentacles, and live forever. Is that so wrong?

No, I suppose not.

...could be fun.

Hollismason wrote:Id actually like Codexes that had all fluff removed completely and were the size of the Rule book from AOBR. I love that rulebook so handy.

No. Bad idea. No 3rd ed. minidexes for me, thanks. Not again. I like the fluff, as do most 40k players.

Then have a minidex and a fluffdex seperatly. Problem solved and I won't have to shell out 25+ dollars for the fourteen pages I'll actually use. Also, if I buy the fluffdex, I can leave that at home when I don't feel like dragging it about to get Starbucks and Jamba Juice spilled all over it.

I'd say an Allies dex, so hypothetically Ad Mech, Witch Hunters, Inquisition.

Angels Codex, Blood and Dark.

Chapters Codex.

Eldar Codex, with Dark Included, Harlies and Exodites as subs.

I can't think of any others right now, cannae be bothered.

But you get the idea.

sA

I don't know if that would be a good idea or not to be honest...

Especially as a combined codex of Eldar and Dark Eldar would probably end up costing £30, which would be horrible for only Eldar players for example..

Combined codices of Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters would be a great idea though. Along with Chaos Spacemarines and Chaos Daemons..

Cheers,

Jack.

HBMC pretty much hit the nail on the head in regards to the best way to organize it.

The biggest thing I'd want to change?

No staggered releases.
The army books have to be ready to drop at the same time, with the models ready also. Even if it takes a few years to get everything ready to go--it's better to have all the books ready, tested, and modelled up to avoid codex creep/cries of favoritism.

I understand staggering codex releases in order to maximize profits. But when they release a codex then all of the models should become available within a window of 3 months.

I really would love to see a little more of Forces of the Imperium and various optional IG armies and a lot less SM slap a different door or shoulder pad on it. Other armies would perform better in the sales department if they recieved the same amount of attention as the 5 or 6 SM armies. Seriously, 5 to 6 books for what is in reality one army. Oh well, I need a way to apply GW's business model to my business.

I'd really like to see a Codex: Cults book, with the following cults:

1. Imperial Cult (Worship the Emperor)

2. Chaos Cult

3. Genestealer Cult

There could be a standard "Cultist" box with the gubbins to make any sort of cult you'd like, with a secondary box for each kind of cult (adding chaos mutations or genestealer mutations, plus vehicle accessories). Make your standard Imperial basic vehicles available, so there would only be three or four new boxed sets, plus a few blisters for characters.

This subject has been brought up a few times over the last year, and I'm on the side that thinks it would be cool to have a large codex with rules for multiple factions. However there are a few reasons that it will never happen.

1) People won't want to spend $150.00 on an Uber codex, when they could spend $25.00 for their one chapter they are interested in. ( And an ubercodex would have to cost that much since GW will not give up the revenue that 5 to 6 minidexes @$25.00 each generate)
2) GW likes to stagger release, and Uber codexes could kill that model.


GG

As I've said before, I'd be in favor of two SM codexes: Codex and Minor Variant (DA, BA) and Major Divergence (SW, BT).

I'm a little surprised that GW hasn't released more 'armies' through APOC, similar to what they did with Kroot. While it's not suitable for tourney play, at least is helps to support those abandoned model lines. And would anyone objec to playing a friendly game vs. 1500 points of Kroot?

I also wouldn't mind GW adopting an approach where there's some main books (say, SM, IG, CSM, Eldar, Tau, Necron) and then some 'variant' books, which deliberately are harder to play and aren't as well supported (say variant marines, Daemons, Cults, etc.).

I agree with Iorek, they need some sort of Cult book. Even if they did a LatD book, it'd be easy enough to 'count as' Imperial or Stealer cults. Most of the enemies in the BL books are cults, and they're not at all represented in the current 40k game.

Hi all.
Just to reset the game to allow wider divergance than 50% + multicoloured space marines.

Codex Space Marines Including ALL non-chaos chapters.('The Dude' did an exellent codex usisng a trait system to cover all named chapters.)

Codex Imperium. IG ,Deamon hunters ,Witch Hunters , Adeptus Mechanicus etc.

Codex Chaos.(God alignement back, get rid of Chaos undecided!)Deamons, Marines, traitor guard and cults.

Codex Eldar all versions .

Codex Orks , ALL Klanz.

Codex Xenos.Nids stealer cults, Necrons,Tau , ancilleries and mecinaries/slaves.

And have background books on all races/factions sold seperately.

TTFN
Lanrak.


But if GW decided it would be Codex SPACE MARINES!!!
(And Codex The Others.Kept in the stock room with the light off and only bough out if specifialy asked for in writing with 3 months proir notice...)

Kanluwen wrote:The biggest thing I'd want to change?

No staggered releases.
The army books have to be ready to drop at the same time, with the models ready also. Even if it takes a few years to get everything ready to go--it's better to have all the books ready, tested, and modelled up to avoid codex creep/cries of favoritism.

I think that'd actually satisfy a very small number of people. Combined books are one thing (Including all-in-one game rules that include army lsits, like Warmachine, Hordes, or Heavy Gear Blitz) but delaying to do even the 'top tier' codices for a game like 40k would irritate lots of people.

The GW side would have a lot of projects that took years to see any return on investment. Does not make bean-counters happy. The Studio would also probably have to adopt some new methodology as they'd have several books of material that are being tweaked at the same time.

The retailers (GW stores and independent) would likely be up in arms: Assuming it's eight races with a mere ten 'products' for each (Both numbers are low: remember, every blister counts as a product) means 80 products all hitting in a single month. Let's assume an average of $10/product (and remember, 'product' in this case includes anything from a cheap-ish blister (under $10 if you're lucky) to a huge kit ($65 or more)... and the store is looking at $800 to just get one each of the current line.

Players would proabbly be mixed. A few might enjoy the idea, but I bet most would rather not get everything all at once.

Combine Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters into Codex Inquisition.

Combine Dark Angels, Blood Angels into Codex Angels of Death.

Split the current chaos codex into Codex Chaos Undivided and Codex Chaos Cults - Then combine Codex Chaos Cults with Codex Chaos Daemons.

There's nothing wrong with the system of staggering releases for an army over the course of 6-18 months. It keeps up a constant level of sales rather than dumping everything on the players at once and then giving them nothing new for a decade. I prefer the 'wave' system over the everything at once method of releasing new armies.

Of course, even GW managed to mess that up.

Now we're in a situation were we have staggered releases, but we don't know what's going to be released, or even if something will be released. 4 years ago when the Ork Codex came out we would have got everything within a month or so - recut Boyz, Lootas, Nobz, Stormboyz, Trukk, Battlewagon, all the metals and that would have been it. Ork players would have to wait another 4-6 years for their next revision, but they'd've had everything. Now we're not sure what's coming next, or even if there is anything that's coming next. Is there going to be a new Wartrakk? What about Guard? Are they getting a Manticore/Medusa/Eradicator? Are Daemons even getting a second wave? What's happening?

The benefits of dumping everything on players at once was that we knew what was coming. Now we're clueless as to what even exists as a new kit because of GW's asinine tight-lip-ed-ness.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Combined Codices? Depends how far you want to break it down. You also have to avoid a discussion on who 'deserves' a Codex.

If you're going to do it by 'race', then you could do some very cool things like the Big Book'o'Eldar that has a standard list, Craftworld variant lists, Harlequins, Exodites and Dark Eldar all in the same book. Ditto for Inquisitorial armies, with the three main Ordos represented as well as their Chambers Militant (SoB, GK and DW).

Angels of Death Codex, giving us a combined Dark Angel/Blood Angel Codex, with separate sub-lists for Deathwing, Ravenwing and Army of Death formations (and maybe even little extra rules for the ones that vary from those like Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkers, who are at the opposite ends of the Blood Angel spectrum).

A Codex Chapters, which really would be similar to what we have now, but something more than taking Mandatory Non-Special Special Characters.

A combined 'Imperium' Codex that leaves out the Inquisitorial and Marine side of things and just looks at the various other major fighting forces in the Imperium - so basic Guard, MechGuard, Drop Troop Guard, Armoured Companies, AdMech/Tech Guard - even the armies that Rogue Traders can have.

Chaos could be done with three books - A generic/Black Legion book that included sub-list rules for Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion & Word Bearers (and proper fething Daemons). A Lost & The Damned/Slaves to Darkness style book with Daemonic Legions, Daemon World Armies and Lost & The Damned. And then a Cult Legion book with World Eaters, Death Guard, 1KSons and Emp's Children.

Orks, Tau, Necrons and Tyranids would all say similar, except Orks might get some actual Klan rules.

Have I forgotten anyone?

If this kind of thinking was put forward on the rules, they would sell a lot more, and more people would be happy.

If GW could just be clear about which Codices would get updates every edition, every other edition, or never again, I could care less about Codices being updated / combined.

You think telling customers that they're not going to get updates is a good business plan John?