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So, i've been wondering... how tough are scout marines in lore and what role to they play?

I know that theyre used as snipers and recon guys, 'scouting' i suppose and spying on the enemy and not weighed down by the hefty power armour, but how tough are they? do they have any implants, are they space marines without the armour?

Does one become a scout marine when initiated into a chapter, then become a fully fledged Space Marine after showing an aptitude in battle? or is a scout marine one by choice, or would fill his roll as a scout marine because he is a more valuable asset as one.

And how tough would a scout marine be compared to say... your average guardsmen due to the better training, equipment, and if so, implants.

I'm pretty sure that Scout Marines are just Marines learning on the battlefield for the first time. They're getting qualified with weapons on the field, and getting experience at the same time.

AFAIK, they've got implants, but not all of them, and yeah, they're space marines in waiting.

As to whether someone could be a scout marine by choice, I would imagine that's how scout squad leaders come about: They choose to train the young bloods in the ways of blowing up orks.

The Codex Astartes lets every neophyte become a scout before he gets promoted to the devastator squad. Then he proceeds to move through different kinds of units until he lands in the tactical squad. So the scout status is really the beginning of a space marine's life.

Well, and they are T4, just like the real marines; The implantation process lasts quite long, over years, but I guess most scouts have most of their modifications already done when they're doing their scout time. So, yeah, they're basically newbie marines, but just as tough as the experienced ones.

Look at the second story in the new-ish anthology Heroes of the Space Marines. It's about IF scouts. I think it's called "The Gauntlet" or some such.

ah, thanks for clearing that up, after playing Dawn of War 2 and seeing Cyrus, who seems immensely experienced and one of the higher up guys in the order but is also a scout

He was even with Deathwatch, I believe. But you know, there are Marines who remain scouts in order to train them.

Jackarius wrote: would fill his roll as a scout marine because he is a more valuable asset as one.

I think if a marine shows an aptitude for a particular feild of battle he is kept in the same squad

I.e if brother marine josh was exellent at long ranged combat his training would stop in a devestater squad

The single biggest difference, in the instance of the Ultramarine geneseed - each of the chapters the seed matures differently, legacies of the primarchs I believe - the primary difference between the scout/neophite and the marine/initiate is whether or not the soldier has his black carapace. I don't remember the specifics from the Index Astartes article, but the black carapace has the interfaces for the power armor.

Depends on the chapter.

DA/BA they are veterans, likewise with Space Wolves.

In vanilla SM, they are neophytes, mostly lacking only the final stage implant "Black carapace" - implanted after they have proven themselves.

On whether a scout could beat your average guardsmen in a fight-hell yea .

It is almost entirely dependant on the particular chapter, but they are generally neophytes in combat for the first time. Like others have said, BA, DA and Space Wolves Scouts are veterans who are skilled enough to forsake their power armor so they can maneuver better in close combat. I'm fairly certain that Scouts who eventually become Scout Sergeants first complete their gauntlet of Space Marine-hood before returning to their Carapace armor. The fact that Cyrus was in the Deathwatch indicates this as they generally only take full power armored Space Marines. Something that bothered me about that was that Kill Team members take a vow of silence about their actions while working with the Ordo Xenos, so didn't Cyrus break a really big rule there?

DarkHound wrote:Something that bothered me about that was that Kill Team members take a vow of silence about their actions while working with the Ordo Xenos, so didn't Cyrus break a really big rule there?

GW are horrible for consistency. But IIRC he wasn't saying "I Fought The Tyranids On This Planet on this Date lets all go there for a Party", but just "Yeah I know how to fight nids bizzatch"

Maybe I took the vow to mean that one couldn't even say that he'd been with the Deathwatch. Then again, I was given no point of reference, so maybe I am exadurating it.

DarkHound wrote:Maybe I took the vow to mean that one couldn't even say that he'd been with the Deathwatch. Then again, I was given no point of reference, so maybe I am exadurating it.

Well considering the Chapters are asked by the Ordo Xenos to send marines, I highly doubt that no-one would know, unless they Operate a Dark Angels level of secrecy, which i doubt they would do over something so trivial.

Kragura wrote:

Jackarius wrote: would fill his roll as a scout marine because he is a more valuable asset as one.

I think if a marine shows an aptitude for a particular feild of battle he is kept in the same squad

I.e if brother marine josh was exellent at long ranged combat his training would stop in a devestater squad

Do you have a source for that? It's certainly not in the codex.

I would think that after doing Devestator->Assault->Tactical they would start looking at specialities. Some marines would go back to Dev or Assault. Some would become sergeants, some would be groomed for the 1st co. etc.

Yes, once the Marine has finished his training, he will then be assigned to whatever his skills fit best. Apparently being a Tactical Marine is one of the Harder "jobs" because of the multitude of tasks performed and only the best get to remain in them (hence why the battle companies have 6 each). The Devastator and Assault Companies are for those marines in training or those who have shown a natural aptitude far surpassing their role as a tactical marine.

Didn't it used to be the other way around? With the Tactical squad used for training because they covered more skills. Then depending on how they went, they either stayed Tactical or went to one of the more specialised squads. But, GW is kind of inconsistant like you said. That's if I was remembering it right though

n0t_u wrote:Didn't it used to be the other way around? With the Tactical squad used for training because they covered more skills. Then depending on how they went, they either stayed Tactical or went to one of the more specialised squads. But, GW is kind of inconsistant like you said. That's if I was remembering it right though

Yes, it "used" to be like that, but that was clearly a Documentation Error made by a Heretical Scribe.

DarkHound wrote:It is almost entirely dependant on the particular chapter, but they are generally neophytes in combat for the first time. Like others have said, BA, DA and Space Wolves Scouts are veterans who are skilled enough to forsake their power armor so they can maneuver better in close combat. I'm fairly certain that Scouts who eventually become Scout Sergeants first complete their gauntlet of Space Marine-hood before returning to their Carapace armor. The fact that Cyrus was in the Deathwatch indicates this as they generally only take full power armored Space Marines. Something that bothered me about that was that Kill Team members take a vow of silence about their actions while working with the Ordo Xenos, so didn't Cyrus break a really big rule there?

wasn't the main reason chapters lent marines out was so they could come back and teach the xeno fighting skills to their battle brothers? so wouldn't so level of explaining what he had been through be needed in teaching the rest of his chapter?