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2009/08/19 19:08:01
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Societal Outcast
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Hi everyone.
First, want to apologise if I have placed this topic inappropriately, if there is somewhere more approppriate I'm afraid I missed it.
Right, well, got a question about what I believe is a fundamental aspect of a Daemonhunter army. I don't believe I fully understand the chart called the Nemesis Force Weapon bonus chart. (See Below)
Anyway. I don't think i've fully understood what this chart means, here is what I gleaned from it;
GKs NFW grant them +2 Str
The Justicar, Terms and BCs NFW gran them +2 Str and Power Wep rules
The GKGMs NFW grants 2 STR and has both the Power Wep and Force Wep rules.
Is this correct?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/08/19 19:11:08
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2009/08/19 19:14:02
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yes.
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2009/08/19 19:17:54
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Societal Outcast
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Thanks for the quick reply
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2009/08/20 01:47:56
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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There are some big arguments of weather the Grandmasters NFW also ignores Eternal Warrior. I am of the standing it does but some say it does not. So make sure to ask your opp. before you play. Also if you do a quick search in you make da call section you should be able to find it. (That would also be the proper place to post things like this.)
By the way welcome to Dakka.
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2009/08/20 01:50:18
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Force Weapons as per the DH Codex kill you outright, and do not cause Instant Death (unless of course the DH Codex says 'Instant Death', in which case I retract my statement).
In any case, this is the problem with trying to use a Codex written for 3rd Ed in 5th Ed. And we can't use designer intent as it's changed so much since then that it's meaningless. I can tell you though that in 3rd Ed, an instant death immunity (like a Daemonic Rune) did not stop outright death from a Force Weapon, so I see no reason why Eternal Warrior should do the same thing.
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2009/08/20 01:54:26
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
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What a suprise NFW ignore Eternal Warrior. Of course you should ask your opponent before playing.
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Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam. Last seen at most tournements. |
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2009/08/20 01:59:06
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Killer Klaivex
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Octavius Widowmaker wrote:What a suprise NFW ignore Eternal Warrior. Of course you should ask your opponent before playing.
No you shouldn't. If your opponent is getting butthurt about his Lash Princes dying instantly, slap him and tell the spanker to buck up and play by the rules.
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People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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2009/08/20 02:03:10
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine
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This argument has been had over and over again. I am going to let it be. It is just safer and no one starts arguing.
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Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam. Last seen at most tournements. |
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2009/08/20 02:06:34
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Killer Klaivex
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Yes, it is a ridiculous argument because all the Daemon and Lash CSM players get all whiny about it. Oh, boo hoo, your Daemons can be killed by Daemonhunters too easily.
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People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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2009/08/20 02:26:39
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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lol, no deamon player will ever play against my IG or eldar on the off chance that either army will have "WTF Terminators in a wave serpent/chimera!" (even though neither is legal) This is the result of insta-gibbing carnifexes, making entire squads of bloodletters dissapear in a blaze of incierator fire and the dimise of Angron. I always say that this little rule almost, but not quite, makes up for; overpriced PAGK, sucky ass-cannons and the banishment of deamonic instability.
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6000 points IG, Leviathins 8th company, (store regiment) 60% painted
4500 points Empire 80-90% painted!
2500 Ogres 2% painted
WIP Biker Battle Company 95% painted
2500 Points Isstavan Drop site massacre Iron Hands (still waiting for dat codex)
I managed to play a 1750 point game with minimal proxieing on the first day DE came out. go me!
The Gutterballers, a relatively successfull BloodBowl team
Oh, and Howard's Faildar
4000 points Adeptus Titanicus |
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2009/08/20 05:33:01
Subject: Re:Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Sinewy Scourge
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When a Daemonhunters player tells a CSM player that RAW he can still instantly kill you even with Eternal Warrior just show him how RAW your whole squad can shoot out of a Rhino. Then agree to be reasonable and accept the rules aren't perfect and play nice
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2nd Place 2015 ATC--Team 48
6th Place 2014 ATC--team Ziggy Wardust and the Hammers from Mars
3rd Place 2013 ATC--team Quality Control
7-1 at 2013 Nova Open (winner of bracket 4)
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2009/08/20 07:36:33
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
Pennsylvania, USA
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Cheese Elemental wrote:Yes, it is a ridiculous argument because all the Daemon and Lash CSM players get all whiny about it. Oh, boo hoo, your Daemons can be killed by Daemonhunters too easily.
...yes , how whiny of someone to get upset about ambiguous rules that should have been updated a long time ago. Instead of taking 5mins to give players a ruling on this and many of the other similar problems they continue releasing space marine codexes and overpriced boxed sets/scenery. I don't find fault with either group, but outdated terms creating a loophole around newer edition rules is something that should have been taken care of long ago. 5mins of work from GW to save hundreds if not thousands of people from arguing every time they try to start a game.
DH's should obviously be a great army to use against a daemon army or an army using daemons, but a new codex should be done to make those benefits a DH army gets over daemons more clear for 5th edition and balanced so no one feels they are being cheated.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/20 07:38:29
In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.
-Kulvain Hestarius, Death Guard |
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2009/08/20 07:42:54
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Killer Klaivex
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Halsfield wrote:Cheese Elemental wrote:Yes, it is a ridiculous argument because all the Daemon and Lash CSM players get all whiny about it. Oh, boo hoo, your Daemons can be killed by Daemonhunters too easily.
...yes , how whiny of someone to get upset about ambiguous rules that should have been updated a long time ago. Instead of taking 5mins to give players a ruling on this and many of the other similar problems they continue releasing space marine codexes and overpriced boxed sets/scenery. I don't find fault with either group, but outdated terms creating a loophole around newer edition rules is something that should have been taken care of long ago. 5mins of work from GW to save hundreds if not thousands of people from arguing every time they try to start a game.
DH's should obviously be a great army to use against a daemon army or an army using daemons, but a new codex should be done to make those benefits a DH army gets over daemons more clear for 5th edition and balanced so no one feels they are being cheated.
It's not ambiguous. You get hit, you die. It was written in 3rd edition, when immunity to instant death existed (such as Daemonic Runes, etc).
If you really have problems telling the difference between 'instant death' and 'slain outright' you are a fool. It's not hard to understand at all.
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People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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2009/08/20 08:00:34
Subject: Re:Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle
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lolololol
*Grand Master enters and uses his NFW on thread*
...Nothing happened here!
Suck it,
=][=
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The true followers of the God-Emperor will never forget their name! We are the Imperial Guard!
Now and forever serving the God-Emperor, and Him alone! |
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2009/08/20 08:10:20
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine
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Cheese is right, but I wish gwar! was here so I could agree with him instead. The GKGMNFW is one of the few strengths grey knights have as an army, among their weaknesses are lack of rhinos for their basic troops, crappy land raiders with no POTMS, overcosted EVERYTING, and IIRC, no access to meltas outside of crusaders.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/20 08:58:48
Drink deep of victory and remember the fallen.
Gwar! wrote:Sanguine has it spot on. |
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2009/08/20 11:46:23
Subject: Daemonhunters NFW Question
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Societal Outcast
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An Inquisitor retinues Warrior may purchase a melta if its a guardsman warrior. both the warrior and melta are 10 pts each. They really aren't too common. As far as I can see, the only NFW with the force weapon rule is the one weilded by the 145 pt HQ choice, the Grey Knight Grand Master (Grey Knight Hero). So even if it does bypass EW, I dunno what the odds really are of a GKHGM making an attack against an enemy with EW. Although i'd likely try prioritise such a target with a GKHGM, I don't know to what extent I'd truely try. In honesty the only thing I've ever faced with EW has been Yarrick and even then I was teamed with an IG player and I think he ended yarrick with a squad of rattlings and a special weapons squad of snipers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/20 11:53:46
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